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PMDG NG3 for the MSFS2020 will cost $139.99

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4 hours ago, Noooch said:

I am sorry but I truly think this price for an addon aircraft is pure lack of respect for the consumer. This is only my opinion and that might be not the truth, but it is how I feel it. Maybe "insane" was not the appropriate word and I apologize, but you get the idea 😉

No need to apologise my friend. If it's your opinion it's your opinion.

3 hours ago, ark said:

my personal conclusion is that the ratio of the enjoyment provided by this thread relative to the cost has been quite good, and thus I will read on at least for a while because I have determined it is worth it to me. But of course, I understand others might well come to a significantly different conclusion because for them the 'thread time' cost outweighs the enjoyment side (especially after reading this!), which reinforces the fact that entertainment value is very personal.

Al

I'd sell my wife for this thread.

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In String Theory nothing is personal only interactions ... we're all the same ... but my PC does somehow feel heavier with PMDG installed on it 🙂

Cheers, Rob.

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This thread became gold when someone suggested Microsoft directly regulating the price for add-ons, haha.  Is $140 crazy for an add-on plane? I wouldn't pay it, and I think it's fine to discuss what you think of the relative value of that.  But the idea that Microsoft should step in is patently absurd.  If you think it's not worth your money, then... don't buy it?

This isn't public utilities or housing we are talking about here, where some amount of regulation is warranted.  It's a digital plane for a piece of software.

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31 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

This isn't public utilities or housing we are talking about here, where some amount of regulation is warranted.  It's a digital plane for a piece of software.

How dare you bring sanity and rationale into this thread. No place for it.

Actually I'm close to bringing a piece of software to (an unrelated) market and I need to set the initial price point and I have to weigh up costs, perceived value, profit targets and many other factors against what I think the market will bear. I'd be interested in knowing some "guesstimates" as to PMDG's potential market size as an exercise in futility, so please add some more sanity to any figures below that you think might be WAY off, taking existing sims as a baseline and a product that is a single aircraft type and ignoring the possibility of a new sim (FS2020) that might increase numbers at some point in the future:

P3D / FSX / XP active users: 3 million
% of those that have paid for any add-ons: 20% = 600,000
% of those that are interested in 1 specific airliner type: 20% = 120,000 (this is my target market)
% of those that I can expect to be made aware of and consider my product: 30% (total guess) = 36,000
% conversion rate: 10% = 3,600 units sold
Timescale to sell those units: 2 years
Price point $140

Gross income = 140 * 3,600 = $504,000, over 2 years, heavily weighted to 1st year,

I would be very interested in which of the figures above you might think are way off the mark. This of course ignores any "commercial" market - only looking at the serious simmers down to the gamers.

 

Thanks

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4 hours ago, b737800 said:

How dare you bring sanity and rationale into this thread.  

 

well, as Avis once said  some of us "try harder"

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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**Thread Warning** this thread is almost wholly based on arguing each other’s opinions. None of these will change. The thread may last forever. You will not win. Persistence is futile. **Thread Warning**

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9 hours ago, Noooch said:

I am sorry but I truly think this price for an addon aircraft is pure lack of respect for the consumer. This is only my opinion and that might be not the truth, but it is how I feel it. Maybe "insane" was not the appropriate word and I apologize, but you get the idea 😉

Insane doesn't shock me if you add insane "for me". I would take exception of "lack of respect" though. There is no loyalty in the consumers market from the consumers side either, and there shouldn't be any. We buy according to our budget of the day and our evaluation of the ratio  quality/price ... and our fancy. Thats why the stores are full of goods made in China . The lack of respect would be for me to lie on the quality and to promise an after-sale service which would'nt exist. 

PMDG high price marketing opens a market to other cheaper aircraft manufacturers. And it is good for us. 

PS again comparing what I pay to Canal+ sat TV, Netflix and Spotify per month for our entertainment, 140 bucks for a plane is not insane, maybe on the expensive side.

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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38 minutes ago, Superdelphinus said:

**Thread Warning** this thread is almost wholly based on arguing each other’s opinions. None of these will change. The thread may last forever. You will not win. Persistence is futile. **Thread Warning**

We have a word in French for that "discussions de café du Commerce", loosely translated as cafeteria talks. You know when you remake the world in a bistrot. At the end of the day, it serves no other purpose than shooting the breeze between friends around a beer. Except that we have no beer here.

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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6 hours ago, Scottoest said:

This isn't public utilities or housing we are talking about here, where some amount of regulation is warranted.  It's a digital plane for a piece of software.

I have to agree with this. If it's not a basic necessity, the free market is perfectly fine.


Interested in real world general aviation? Check out my youtube channel. Thank you!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP2ETF-LIZq70invkDiZtUA/

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6 hours ago, b737800 said:

 

P3D / FSX / XP active users: 3 million
% of those that have paid for any add-ons: 20% = 600,000
% of those that are interested in 1 specific airliner type: 20% = 120,000 (this is my target market)
% of those that I can expect to be made aware of and consider my product: 30% (total guess) = 36,000
% conversion rate: 10% = 3,600 units sold
Timescale to sell those units: 2 years
Price point $140

Gross income = 140 * 3,600 = $504,000, over 2 years, heavily weighted to 1st year,

 

And all that without taking piracy into consideration. I would reduce the conversion rate even further in order to take into account piracy. What PMDG/other devs could do to mitigate that is to offer the product at a reasonable price in order so that piracy would not be attractive anymore. 

So far we're not there yet. I payed for FS Passengers 30 EUR (a fair price would have been 10 EUR the most), the developer (a single person) is missing for quite a while, the product not updated to work with the latest P3D. Do I feel cheated? Yes, I do. Would I buy again from him or would I use pirated versions? I would certainly not buy from him again. 

So you can imagine, someone like me would not ever be moved by the support developers rhetoric, especially with the inflated add on prices. 

At 140 EUR/plane they will be pirated a lot. At 60 or less, a lot more people would buy and have a safer and a easier experience with their products. I am in the crowd that hopes MS will step in and regulate this market. It's not fair to take advantage of their platform to sell products that are 2x more expensive than the base sim (assuming the FS price will be 60 EUR per license). MS could simply just take a x% out of every sale (Steam model) and (x+50)/sale for addons that are over 60 EUR/license. Since most users will eventualy shift to MSFS 2020 the demand will be there so developers will eventually want a share of it.

 

 

Edited by Mihai Eu

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54 minutes ago, bashope said:

I have to agree with this. If it's not a basic necessity, the free market is perfectly fine.

Lets be blunt, it is a toy :laugh: !

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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8 hours ago, 188AHC said:

That's called capitalism and is the foundation of the prosperity we see in our world today. 

You mean that's the foundation of the unequal distribution of wealth we see in the world today. 😉

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36 minutes ago, Mihai Eu said:

Would I buy again from him or would I use pirated versions? I would certainly not buy from him again. 

At 60 or less, a lot more people would buy and have a safer and a easier experience with their products

 

What is your profession, and can I buy whatever product or service you might be involved with at a price that I choose, not you, even though I can only guess your costs? If not, I'll steal it anyway. All that written in the same post that talks about fairness.

At $60 or less per unit they would have to sell 3 times the volume to be in the same financial position.

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14 minutes ago, Farlis said:

You mean that's the foundation of the unequal distribution of wealth we see in the world today. 😉

Yeah, better have a system where nobody can afford anything expensive, actually anything at all 'cause the shops are empty.

 

 


Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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28 minutes ago, b737800 said:

At $60 or less per unit they would have to sell 3 times the volume to be in the same financial position.

And yet they may sell far greater than 3x the volume if they reduce the price to that level. A sim add-on is highly price elastic.

I liked your attempt to calculate the potential market, at lot of the rationale seemed sound. However, it's a huge stab in the dark, we just don't know the numbers buying (nor ever will).
What we can tell is that it appears the NGXu is somewhat popular based on how many claim to have bought it and the numbers posting pictures and videos of it.

All I know is that I wish I could charge clients a 40% increase in the space of a year and have a loyal following happily defending my decision.

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Ryzen 3700X 4.4GHz(PBO); MSI RTX 3080 Ti VENTUS 3X; 32GB Corsair 3200 MHz; ASUS VG35VQ 35" (3440x1440)
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