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Cruachan

Be careful what you wish for: a cautionary note

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I think some people take this all too seriously.

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David Porrett

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13 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi,

There has been much discussion on the forums surrounding those jaw-dropping videos and images which are forming an integral part of the clever advance publicity campaign promoting ASOBO Studio’s Microsoft Flight Simulator.

As part of these discussions, we are reading again and again of user intentions to abandon financial support for the current 3rd Party Community of Developers by ceasing to purchase their products. Seriously?! Surely it must be obvious what the likely consequences would be? Are we really so hell bent on the destruction of our hobby by suppressing all that talent and enthusiasm? Time for a reality check.

Despite what we have been told there are absolutely no guarantees we can trust MS to encourage ongoing 3rd Party Support and Development by producing an SDK for the new simulator. Indeed, can we trust MS to do anything when their modus operandi is, as always, driven by commercial considerations? 

If we are serious about ceasing support for the existing 3rd Party flight simming industry as we wait for this ‘wonderful’ new all-bells-and-whistles sim sometime in 2020, then we may come to rue the day as we also witness the collapse of our hobby along with all the riches and diversity of choice 3rd Party bring to the table. Come on, is it wise to be committing all our eggs to one basket? Being short-sighted is one thing, but compounding that with irrationality of thought is, quite simply, stupid in the extreme.

Regards,

Mike

Respectfully, are you still buying products for versions of sims you long use whether it P3Dv3, or Steam or FS4, etc., etc.?  If so, I'm sure the folks over at WILCO 🤮 love you.

Do you buy anything for items/products you no long own or use?


Aaron Ortega

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I have Prepar3D V4.5 addons coming out of every orifice. That's why I am not buying anymore (hardly any). It has nothing to do with the impending MSFS 2020

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If a product excites me, I will buy it. Plain and simple. Most of us have been around the sim hobby for long enough to migrate from multiple other versions. This will be the same. You will always have some overlap, and the next big thing is always around the corner...tech 101.

 

Edited by CaptainNick
Fix an autocorrected word

Nick Silver

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Pmdg,  fs2crew active sky and others had no problem at all charging simmers full price for p3d. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are expected to feel sorry for them?

 

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ZORAN

 

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13 minutes ago, zmak said:

Pmdg,  fs2crew active sky and others had no problem at all charging simmers full price for p3d. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are expected to feel sorry for them?

 

take  it  you  want them to  work  for  nothing


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Peter kelberg

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20 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

take  it  you  want them to  work  for  nothing

Jv at ORBX must be working for nothing then? I dont think so

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ZORAN

 

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I see a slowing of sales for FSX and P3D but that should tell a story, FSX addons still going out the door. I think mostly we are keen to enjoy what we have now and happy to wait to see what's on offer from MS. Take it from there.

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Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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3 minutes ago, zmak said:

Jv at ORBX must be working for nothing then? I dont think so

You mean Orbx didn’t ask money to adapt FSX products to P3D ? Apple and orange. Orbx and PMDG have not the same business model, one releases one high-priced product every two years (ballpark estimate), the other one several low-priced tens a year. With due consideration to the small size of the overall addon market, PMDG  has a niche, Orbx makes its money on a mass market. The cashflow pattern is obviously very different. As @Alan_A pointed out in another thread in the FS20 forum, A2A made the same choice than PMDG. Another sign of that, these two top-tier aircraft dev hardly make any sale. I would guess that Orbx makes most of its revenue at discounted prices.

On the issue raised by the OP, flight simulation is an entertainment served by a market. It is not a fraternity or some kind of charity.  I took some flak early on, on the FS20 forum, saying that the MS announcement so long in advance was a bad manner to the cottage industry. I still think so. I still call out the schadenfreude of some, rejoicing of a future demise of the addon industry.

But to ask to buy things just to keep developers afloat and call those who don’t want to that, short sighted, irrational and stupid is a little over the top if you ask me. May I add that some have slowed their purchases before the MS announcement, waiting for some hints about v5. This market is cyclic, one more cycle.

These times are full of dire, doomsday predictions. One more. 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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Not to mention that graphic addons like ORBX lacks the complexity of airplane addons like PMDG, FSL etc.

And they are MUCH easier converted between the sims.


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so What ORBX could have charged 10 to 50% more or even 100% but they didnt.  So whats the excuse for fs2crew  and active sky? I think active sky went 100%

 

Edited by zmak

ZORAN

 

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27 minutes ago, zmak said:

so What ORBX could have charged 10 to 50% more or even 100% but they didnt.  So whats the excuse for fs2crew ?

John V thought about asking money for the upgrade. You could find long forgotten posts on their forum about that. But he smartly didn’t,  the money spent by his customers to upgrade would have somewhat dried the money spent on the new not-discounted releases where he makes most of his profit and prevented to build rapidly a very large catalogue which is his goal.

 FS2Crew is also a niche product, very much like a pilot-fish around a much larger fish.

 

Edited by domkle

Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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26 minutes ago, domkle said:

You mean Orbx didn’t ask money to adapt FSX products to P3D ? Apple and orange. Orbx and PMDG have not the same business model, one releases one high-priced product every two years (ballpark estimate), the other one several low-priced tens a year. With due consideration to the small size of the overall addon market, PMDG  has a niche, Orbx makes its money on a mass market. The cashflow pattern is obviously very different. As @Alan_A pointed out in another thread in the FS20 forum, A2A made the same choice than PMDG. Another sign of that, these two top-tier aircraft dev hardly make any sale. I would guess that Orbx makes most of its revenue at discounted prices.

On the issue raised by the OP, flight simulation is an entertainment served by a market. It is not a fraternity or some kind of charity.  I took some flak early on, on the FS20 forum, saying that the MS announcement so long in advance was a bad manner to the cottage industry. I still think so. I still call out the schadenfreude of some, rejoicing of a future demise of the addon industry.

But to ask to buy things just to keep developers afloat and call those who don’t want to that, short sighted, irrational and stupid is a little over the top if you ask me. May I add that some have slowed their purchases before the MS announcement, waiting for some hints about v5. This market is cyclic, one more cycle.

These times are full of dire, doomsday predictions. One more. 

So your telling me PMDG had to start from scratch and build a brand new plane with the same effort and development process that went into fsx ? Anything less than that should should have been discounted accordingly..but a 100% lol com on..

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ZORAN

 

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2 minutes ago, zmak said:

So your telling me PMDG had to start from scratch and build a brand new plane with the same effort and development process that went into fsx ? Anything less than that should should have been discounted accordingly..but a 100% lol com on..

No one  knows   how  much time and  effort  that pmdg  and  others  like  fsl  etc  to  transform  from  fsx  to p3dv4    so  why  not  ask  them  directly


I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

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1 minute ago, zmak said:

So your telling me PMDG had to start from scratch and build a brand new plane with the same effort and development process that went into fsx ? Anything less than that should should have been discounted accordingly..but a 100% lol com on..

I specifically answered your comparison between PMDG, FScrew and Orbx.

You bring up now another issue which has been debated on the FS20 forum. PMDG sets up its price as it deems it fit. Up to you to decide whether you want to buy or not. Nobody forces you to fly PMDG. 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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