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Twenty6

Dear Navigraph User,

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6 minutes ago, Mace said:

Maybe that e-mail is not legit?  I mean, I have the FMS data sub and I haven't gotten any e-mail. airernie, above hasn't received an email either.

It’s legit... https://forum.navigraph.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8450


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

Oof.   Well ok then.  Carry on lads.

My sub is ending this month just like airernie's...my lack of an e-mail might have something to do with that.


Rhett

7800X3D ♣ 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ  Gigabyte 4090  Crucial P5 Plus 2TB 

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$ 144  Canadian per year for data (not charts)  that 4 times per year would satisfy my needs!

Thanks but no thanks.

JJ

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I am still in shock since this morning when I received Navigraph email. A loyal customer since 2009. Had the 4 cycles per year subscription as I believe very little is change in the AIRAC data. When they went to a mandatory yearly subscription I thought about it and even though I knew Aerosoft offered a similar product I decided to be faithful to Navigraph and decided to stay with them. Never used the charts feature as 99% of my flights are IFR. I use Simbrief and Skyvector which both services are free and if I fly outside the US (very seldom) I can always find the approach charts for a specific airport online.

In the near future I can see all my VATSIM flights having an addition to the remarks section: EXPIRED AIRAC.

 

 

Edited by jotafl
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Jay Marin

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I too am a little miffed to say the least of this “development”. I only stuck with Navigraph because it supports a number of flight planning tools like simbrief, something that Aerosoft with NavdataPro still doesn’t. 
Are there really so few data only subscribers? I have never used their charts, as many terminal charts are available freely on the Internet, and from the official portals. There are even a number of perfectly accessible vfr sectional sites that are more than adequate for my needs. 
This is similar in my mind to the packaging of pay tv bundles like Sky. You want to watch one channel, you have to pay for a package including channels you have zero interest in... I always thought that to be criminal and daylight robbery, so have NEVER been a customer of such services. I will probably avoid Navigraph in future and find some other solution to my problem. Perhaps we should petition Navigraph in an open letter on one of the fora or news services?

Andrew

Edited by aentwis
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Got also this mail yesterday. I'm one of less who use data only. I can't belive that, there are many user only use the AIRACS for sure. I feel myself extored, pay or go! Next time ORBX came along this way. Imagine you want to buy KEGE scenery and they write: "you want to buy KEGE Scenery? You are the only one customer who buy only this Airport, we do have put KJAC, KSAN and KBZN in your market basket, buy all or buy nothing. Or you can use all Airports around the world for 50 $ per month? Whould we do that? Me not, for me it whould be the end of flightsimulation. So I do have undiscribe this morning at Navigraph and will change over to NavDataPro. I feel sorry about that but I don't buy things I do already have in other way. Hope many people will follow otherwise all the other developers will learn and sell us things we don't want and need.

Axel

Edited by mc-leod
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48 minutes ago, aentwis said:

 Perhaps we should petition Navigraph in an open letter on one of the fora or news services?

Andrew

Post on their forum. That's the only way they will know the depth of feeling against this decision.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Will be interesting to see what reasons they name, if they do. Customer satisfaction surely can't be on the list. I can totally understand the frustration.


cheers,
NiIs U.

AMD 5800X3D | 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 3200MHz | RTX 4070 12GB @ 1920x1050px

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Looking at Aerosoft's NavDataPro it covers all the software I use with the exception of Hi-Fi Active Sky and a specialist Concorde flight utility. Cost? 31 Euros for 13 datasets compared to 90 Euros from Navigraph.

https://www.aerosoft.com/en/flight-simulation/flight-simulator-2004/tools-missions/1750/navdatapro-one-year-subscription-13-datasets

I shall be switching unless Navigraph reverse their decision. I imagine all FMS Data subscribers will too.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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We have three months or more depending on when your subscription runs out. I recommend commenting on their forums. Navigraph Reply to feedback (Yes mods I know I linked someone elses forums, but complaining here is like spitting in the wind. I think it is worth a 24 hour ban to get people to complain in the right area.) 

I think they failed to consider that some of us use real world products and only needed their sim navdata. 

 

 

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I've do it, I wrote the same in her forum, wrote them an email too and unsubscribe this morning.

Finished

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It's a difficult one.

I had a Navigraph Ultimate subscription for many years; I dropped down to FMS data only a couple of years ago after they changed to Jeppesen charts because I just wasn't a fan. Thus, I've been using Navigraph navdata and Aerosoft charts.

Reading between the lines, my guess is that at least at their end the distinction between navdata and charts is becoming increasingly blurred. I'm guessing that with all the georeferencing (moving map stuff) etc that Navigraph themselves these days are largely dealing with data which is then generated in to charts, rather than buying a set of charts per se from Jeppesen which are subsequently distributed.

In other words -- it's probably increasingly the navdata which is the 'expensive' bit of the subscription, not the chart graphics themselves -- so those of us who were on FMS data only were probably being subsidised by those paying for charts as we were getting, from Jeppesen's point of view, the same data but at a fraction of the price.

On a personal level, the difference in cost between what I'm paying now (Navigraph data + Aerosoft charts) is negligible compared to a Navigraph Ultimate subscription and no Aerosoft charts so I will probably suck up being stuck with Jepps as being able to update Simbrief's navdata is important to me and I can't fault the Navigraph product -- the work they have done since moving over to the georeferenced charts in terms of integration with Simbrief, enroute charts, moving maps, iPad and desktop apps etc is absolutely incredible, really nice and really impressive. They were also very helpful and responsive support wise when I had an issue a year or so back -- my only beef with them is the Jeppesen format.

I think it is worth noting as well that even at €120 a year for what is provided (worldwide FMS data, worldwide georeferenced terminal and enroute charts, very professional and slick apps etc) is an absolute steal -- Jeppesen charge airlines and individuals thousands for this data, especially for worldwide coverage. It's big business, so the fact that as simmers we are able to access it at an even vaguely affordable price is quite something (the same is true obviously of the Lufthansa Systems based Aerosoft product).

That said -- if Aerosoft were able to work out something in order to be able to update Simbrief I'd probably switch over for the Lido chart layout. If you don't have any chart requirements and you're not fussed about Simbrief then as Ray says Aerosoft navdata is an obvious straight alternative.

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You're right and maybe it is a great work. Any Captains need it but others not. With this decission Navigraph say they don't want to have retired persons, students or other people with less money who can't afford charts they never need. That's not correct. When all the developer of flightsimulation came to this point every body have to pay 100 up to 200 $ or more per month for using there product. So it is not the right way to say buy also all things you don't need or go.

For me it is a no go

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38 minutes ago, mc-leod said:

With this decission Navigraph say they don't want to have retired persons, students or other people with less money who can't afford charts they never need. That's not correct. When all the developer of flightsimulation came to this point every body have to pay 100 up to 200 $ or more per month for using there product. So it is not the right way to say buy also all things you don't need or go.

I understand your point of view but I think you're missing the point I was making slightly: I am guessing (and it is just a guess) that the driver for the change is that the navdata is now what is costing Navigraph large amounts of money, not the charts. In other words -- maybe the Charts customers were actually paying for FMS data that they don't necessarily need, and in doing so subsidising cheap subscriptions for those of us who were on FMS data only.

I'm neither defending nor disapproving of Navigraph - at the end of the day though as simmers we don't need up to date charts or FMS data, they're nice to haves. If we were flying in reality, we would genuinely need this stuff and we'd be paying a heck of a lot more than €10 a month for it.

At least we have pretty much a genuine choice -- if you don't want the bells and whistles Navigraph product, Aerosoft have an equivalent FMS data product which is slightly cheaper than Navigraph's FMS data subscription is/was, and they're very flexible (you can buy one cycle only, four updates a year or the full 13 updates) albeit they do not support a small number of addons which Navigraph do. Or not update at all safe in the knowledge that the CAA aren't going to take your licence away! 🙂

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