Should we go back to the moon?

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I thought this debate happened before my time, but here we go again. The Cold war was a driving force last time, but...I honestly don't see the point in manned missions beyond low or geosynchronous orbit. All the reasons given seem more like reasons to explore the Pacific basin. Energy? Frozen methane seeps- Though it is a greenhouse gas. Mining the moon? Didn't it come from the Pacific basin? There are literally fountains near the Marianas trench spewing titanium, gold et cetera and the only ones I know doing something about it are the North Koreans. They were there years ago with a ship vaccuming up the cooled nuggets of various elemements. Technological innovations? Air and water purification could benefit just as much by extreme duration submersions. We can move millions of tons of equipment to the Marianas cheaper than we could send a crew to the moon once. Yes there are enormous challenges, but the benefits to hassle ratio seems drastically in favor of Oceanic rather than space manned exploration missions. Men DO have their place in space now, but not on the moon or Mars IMHO.It is entirely possible within the laws of physics to build an elevator to geosynchronous orbit. The missing elememt is the maturity of "supercarbon" filements to provide the strength to weight ratio for the cables. In the 80s they were saying it would take a hundred years. The devs of ENIAC probably probably thought at least twice that long before a calculator would fit on your wrist.Yes, as long as man exists he will explore and that is a good thing. But taxpayer's dollars would IMO be better spent exploring, understanding, protecting and getting resources from the ocean rather than space.No, let's not forget space. But till there's an elevator, let future missions out of orbit be exclusively unmanned.Opinions?Best Regards, Donny:-wave

[Guest]

We should colonise space in preparation for leaving the solar system, if a mission to the moon is a stepping stone to achieve that I'm all for it.If it's another Apollo program, just a show of technological achievement, it's a waste of money better spent on the real target.We can't remain penned up on this overcrowded planet forever. Abandoning manned spaceflight will mean a death warrant for the human race within a relatively short period. It might be a few centuries, maybe a thousand years, but by then we'll be so overcrowded and completely out of resources that we can't survive any longer without colonising space but by then we'd lack the resources to pull it off and die out.Your reasoning is therefore false. Using the ocean floor will only delay the inevitable if we don't open up space in a grand fashion as well.The ocean floor may keep us in minerals and living space for another few hundred years at best, space will keep us supplied and able to expand practically forever.We should indeed NOT focus on planetary exploration and colonisation as that's decidedly uneconomical. I see planets as little more than tourist attractions in the future of the human race. Maybe a few gas giants may be able to supply fuel for spacecraft through automated factories, maybe a few minerals that exist only on planetary surfaces might need to be mined there, but that's the extent of our need for them.Building space settlements for tens of thousands of people if not larger is no problem. It was technically feasible back in the 1970s but at the time considered politically unnecessary (it takes longer than the next elections) and too expensive (because they wanted to pull all the materials up from the earth instead of mining them from asteroids).In the near future we could hollow out large asteroids and move them into high stable orbits (or even free in orbits around the sun). The materials mined can be used to build the internal structure of the settlement and the remainder to pay off the debt of building it and make a nice profit as well.

[Guest beana51]

Hi Donny, Yes, of course we should.The JFK speech many years ago opened the window in that direction.It was the forfilment of many a dream.It was then the greatest thing I ever heard.Proven, was we could if we want to.I think as surly as man left the cave,and went over the mountain,"WE", man, will have to go and explore whats over our mountain.Space that is.I know the arguments for, robotic exploration should suffice.And it can,but for pure exploration,with the human ability to absorb what is happening, that should never be substitute. A debate like this can go on, and on, like it has for too long.Just very recently the Chinese have expressed serous interest in space. The only vacuum out there is the one we created by not pursuing further exploration.Whats over there?,its mans eternal question. Ever since our common ancestors left Africa,man has explored every part of his environment. A long time ago? some may ask,no,it was just yesterday. Geologically that is.This Ole Earth,home ,may break down,and can't get fixed,or the sun may belch,and Barbecue the place,or one of those rocks may hit a bullseye, us, or like some ancient bus,it can't go NO-MO.Is life and intelligence supposed to sit on a dusty road,with a busted bus,no place to go, and get extinct.? "Will we be the "Right stuff?" or no stuff at all. I hope not. VIN :-spacecraft

[Guest Charlie]

Lol....that smiley inventory is a lot deeper than I realized.Couldn

[Guest]

And never forget that when the moon project was stopped the technology was lost.At the moment we don't know how to build a Saturn V rocket, let alone something with similar power based on current level technology.All the blueprints, rigs, computer data, everything was DESTROYED on orders from on high (like white house high) to prevent the project from ever being reactivated.

[Bob Scott 7,719]

>All the blueprints, rigs, computer data, everything was>DESTROYED on orders from on high (like white house high) to>prevent the project from ever being reactivated.I can't remember ever reading a credible accounting of such an order. Lots was lost, true, but I think due to the careless lack of archiving after the program ended. There are two Saturn launch vehicles from the Apollo program still in existence...one would think that if such an order were given it'd be a glaring omission to leave two completed rockets laying around...Time to head back to www.crazyconspiracytheories.com for some new material I think.:-zhelp :-abductCheerioBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

[Guest Charlie]

>And never forget that when the moon project was stopped the>technology was lost.>At the moment we don't know how to build a Saturn V rocket,>let alone something with similar power based on current level>technology.>>All the blueprints, rigs, computer data, everything was>DESTROYED on orders from on high (like white house high) to>prevent the project from ever being reactivated.Uhhhhh....where do you get this stuff? I have no knowledge of this and can

[Guest beana51]

Hi all. The US space program is currently grounded due to a number of reasons. First and formost is the general public apathy. Some attitudes are "Go to the moon? We did that already." Secondly, our information services have more important things to focus on. Subsequent space information has been delegated the the back columns.Thirdly and most importantly is of course, money. We as a Nation have financed all for the world and nation's benefit, find there is not enough money. I'm also afraid that in the universities the questions are not being asked. Where are the dreams and urgency of the young? Where are the people going to come from when we need them? Of course we have talented, capable individuals but not yet motivated. Space travel is the natural extension of our destiny. I never realized that the wiring in the early capsules had to be done by, for the most part, elderly women, who after years of making dollies, clothes, etc, had the patience to do this work. They along with all the other pioneers in space are gone. Give us an APOLLO 13 story, we get interested. Show us the price we have paid in a space tragedy, it holds our attention, but everyday success bores us. A batting average of a ballplayer who is making millions is far more important.(Even to me times.)Yet something will happen to get us with the program again. This Rip Van Winkle slumber can't last forever. The talent will be energized by the dream again. I believe that. As I suggested, man, representing mankind will have to start thinking of evolution to the stars. It's the way to go. Then again there may not be an alternative. The thought of some alien anthropologist trying to figure out who we were is not the stuff of science fiction. We do it all the time. Thanks, VIN

[RobertVA 0]

For the short term I

[Guest]

Those two are missing a lot of parts which were canabilised for other vehicles (especially the Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab missions).It's what I heard from several sources, could indeed have been negligence covered up by a story of orders from up high.It happened 30 years ago, there's not likely to be a paper trail leading anywhere by now.What is known is that NASA shelved pretty much everything they had to finance the Shuttle, maybe that's where the story originates.

[Guest]

FTL is indeed unlikely.Near lightspeed can be reached but the required accelleration to do so quickly isn't feasible using current (or currently envisioned) technology.That's why any interstellar manned spacecraft would essentially have to be a generation ship with a population large enough to have a stable genetic makeup so they can survive for hundreds of years until 3 or 4 generations later the ship arrives at its destination.Such trips would of course almost have to be one-way, with the established colonies possibly building new ships to continue the expansion when they arrive.To our current mindset this may seem weird, even unacceptable to many, but it's little different from the sailors who set out to colonise the Americas and Australia. For them too there was no real way back, and they were travelling into the unknown.

[G7USL 117]

Hi Donny,Good subject.Yes, we should go back to the moon as one mission to my knowledge was observed by 'UFO's parked on the top of a ridge looking down on the Astronauts and watching their progress.This to any other lifeform would be neutral territory for a meeting with extra terrestials and could form a basis for new technology that would benefit all of us?Observations viewed on Earth puts the human race as a very hostile species, the moon with it's limitations is the perfect ground for contact (Assuming it hasn't happened yet and not made public?).Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

[Guest beana51]

I think these thoughts expressed here remind me of the parable of the blind men trying to describe an elephant. Its a tree trunk!,says one, no ,its a serpent! replies another, I got it,its a fly swatter!.All may be correct. The ability to comprehend complex things also requires different points of view,and time,Evolution that is.Evolution of the human mind .Were still not very far from our closest relatives,the chimps.That only because a comet got rid of our reptilian ancestors. Each human generation breeds great minds and men.Those stone tool makers, cave painters were great minds and great artists,the early Greco/Roman input was was almost unsurpassed.The Renaissance took us kicking,stinking and dragging the mind from the dark ages.A Mr. Da Vinci a Mr. Galileo,,A Mr Newton, and more recently a Mr. Einstein.Of course the list goes on, and are milestones in human evolution of thinking.All may have shown that nothing is impossible,and with logic ,all should be pursued..Now at the currant accelerated rate of development,things we take for granted were not only considered impossible,yesterday,but were unimaginable.As surly ,as the belief by learned men that the earth was flat.I think all those great minds of the past would have no problem fitting into our world today.As surly as when an Aborigine is given a portable radio or a VCR,he adapts in a minute.The human mind can and will accept any technology almost instantly.The speed of light now is the yardstick of human,or for that matter ,celestial rates of movement and is its limiting speed.This stone wall of science is absolute.It is at least for now. But what if some other human mind,yet born, thinks not?Will we burn him as a heretic?The human mind is evolving at a fast,and an ever accelerating rate also. The last century shows that most dramatic development .From the horse buggy to the moon. Flight, breaking the sound barrier,the world of medicine and on and on. At this rate where will we be in the next century?Just a short time,in our story.I'm approaching 74 now.Seen a Lotta stuff happen in my short lifetime. Like what I'm doing rite now,Unmanageable! I've come a long way from a swivel chair,a broomstick,and making funny sounds tying to mimic a Radial engine,to this FS simulator. Which has evolved so quickly in a short time.Where will it take us at this rate of development??What we can not even dream of today will be reality tomorrow.But theres a dark side also.War ! Funny, some of our greatest innovations have been developed in those periods. But now,it could send us back,irreversibly to some intellectual stone age .Some think just that,intergalactic wars by other forms of life ,destroying themselves,leaving nothing. Civilizations reaching a zenith of development ,then vanishing in some fantastic destruction.This happening over,and over,and over again. Its a violent place out there,as witnessed by whats going on when we look at it.Unfriendly place.Some people refer to Aliens,Valid to be sure,but what if we are the top form of life,for now?,at least in our celestial neighborhood? We listen,we look,we call out,but to no avail,no one answers our calls! No requests to us by any Aliens to speak to our leaders? Supernovas,are not impartial as to what they eradicate.It may be we,sifting through some alien soil searching for life. THE STUFF OF DREAMS! VIN :-ufo2 (gotta go flying now)PS Friends, please spare us the abduction story's:-laugh1

[Guest]

There's a tiny problem with the speed of light and that's the energy needed to reach it.As long as your starting mass in larger than 0 it will always take an infinite amount of energy to reach the speed of light (unless everything we understand about physics is wrong).That makes it rather impossible to reach the speed of light, or get anywhere near it.

[Guest beana51]

Its a big problem.I agree with you.The good Dr. said so with facts and figures.Too bad he is still not around,who knows what he further would have reveled to us. However you touched on something that may be valid .The stuff we know as of today. It may not apply to tomorrow.Thinking this could change with different minds.In the world of science,there has been many of misconceptions accepted as truth for a long time.Like the Earth being the center of the universe,or more recently the speed of sound being obsolute as the speed one can go.I tell ya, I tend not to take anything as not subject to change serous any longer.However ya can still count on death and taxes to forever remain constant, like the North Star. MMMMMM! I wonder about that OLE north star too!It may not be there at all?? Thanx for letting me Blaab on!! ITS FUN!! VIN :-laugh1