Spare a thought

[Cruachan 705]

Hi,

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

The situation is summed up well by this excellent post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/564138-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-a-cautionary-note/?do=findComment&comment=4111437

Regards,

Mike

 

[CFIJose 5,485]

Hi Mike,

Most of us already have the must have add-ons for FSX/P3D v4 and I'm sure most users will take advantage of the up-coming sales. There's no need to worry about devs. If they create a wanted add-on and have an excellent reputation, most us will buy and continue to support their hard work. They will not be forgotten,certainly not by me.

Don't let the poor attitude of some affect your shrewd judgement.

Jose

[pmb 5,137]

If you ask me, I have been going on buying the Prepar3d addons I want after the announcement, and quite a number. However, I do see this less as a caritative engagement for our developers than just a means to keep me interested. I'll certainly use Prepar3d for more than a year from now, so I find it makes sense.

Honestly, I have different feelings against our developers. There are some who develop more as a matter of love than gearing towards financial success. I would name here LLC Creations,. Simaddons, UK2000, France VFR, and the like.

There are others, though, whom I find - honestly - arrogant, notably in their behavior in their forums. I won't name anyone here, but it's those closing unwanted, crital topics, notably crtical towards their products, excluding critical users from access, and such. I will not name anyone here. That's their good right to do with their forums what pleases them, but it's our good right to judge them for this.

BTW, why do we need another thread on this topic?

Kind regards, Michael

[MatthewS 761]

1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

Wait... So I've spent at least $2,000 on P3D addons over the last few years and now you expect me to continue spending money on a sim I won't be flying in 6 months?

Instead of pandering to the insecurities of 3rd party P3D developers by saying "don't worry, here's some more money, P3D is not dying", I'd rather make my opinion very clear.

My opinion is this... For me P3D is DEAD!  I will not spend another cent on P3D add-ons. Instead, if 3rd party developers want my money they should reposition themselves for FS2020, just like PMDG is doing.  3rd party developers should not kid themselves that they will still have a thriving P3D market.  As soon as FS2020 is released I think P3D sales will drop to just 5% of past levels.  Those developers who stick their heads in the sand will surely go under. 

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

Hi,

While you revel in all this excitement and eager anticipation, can I ask everyone to spare a thought for those 3rd Party Developers who have served us so well over the years and who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim. If we have valued their contribution to our hobby then the least we can do in return by way of a thank you is to continue providing our support and encouragement to continue through what could prove to be a very difficult period ahead.

The situation is summed up well by this excellent post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/564138-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-a-cautionary-note/?do=findComment&comment=4111437

Regards,

Mike

 

We have been supporting them since at least FSX with our money, it's not like they are doing a charity. That is 13 years of supporting them by the way.

Besides, it's not the end of the world. Asobo have been more than welcoming towards them, some developers visited them in their studios, we know there is a SDK coming, PMDG already announced their product (at least the 737) will be coming for this new sim too.
Sure, others have to adapt if the stock sim offers what they used to sell, but this will also show who is capable of adapting and who isn't. Some, even during these 13 years, managed to improve their products and integrate new technology. Others instead tried to make the most bucks by offering similar products.

I think about REX and HiFi. Those are the ones most hurt here i think. But then again, they have been selling ultra HD 2d clouds for a really long time. Not one time (as far as we know) they tried to implement something newer like noise generated clouds (which is what, unsurprisingly, the new MSFS ended up having). Others like Orbx can (i hope) shift their attention towards those imperfections that will likely still be in the scenery (for example by going from doing regional sceneries to more airports, landmarks and things like that). We'll have to see.

Overall however, the developers i considered worth have been already supported with my approval and my wallet too. This is a fresh start, those who can will find their niche to offer their products on the new platform. Those who cannot will stick to their P3D sales or shift their attention elsewhere. 

[MatthewS 761]

In the latest FSElite interview video with Asoba it was mentioned that the existing "Gamer Pass" subscription would seen millions of new users trying out FS2020.  Surely the market for add-ons in FS2020 will be many times larger than ever existed for P3D.

Yes, REX and HiFi seem in a bad position, but developers of add-on aircraft and airports must be very happy about FS2020!

Orbx's global and regional products seem pointless now and IMHO they should focus on airports exclusively.

Maybe once the dust settles and the capabilities of the SDK become apparent we will see new types of products not possible before in P3D. How about trains and boats?  Maybe this is possible via the SDK too?

Fly into Athens, do a little sailing around the Greek Isles... ha-ha.

Frankly, the FS2020 world seems too good to be restricted to aircraft alone!

Edited November 16, 2019 by MatthewS

[aleex 551]

1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

 who are currently feeling beleaguered as a direct consequence of Microsoft’s aggressive marketing of ASOBO’s new sim.

Wait... what? 

You are forgetting a sim is for consumers, not for developers. They are as free to create content as users are to buy it, and that’s fine.

But aggressive marketing because MS and ASOBO are showing what consumers want? Dude, I think you are a little bit lost here. 

[simtom 495]

11 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Surely the market for add-ons in FS2020 will be many times larger than ever existed for P3D.

I'm not so sure about that. The people who will play MSFS through the Game Pass are gamers in the first place and they generally hate the words "DLC", "Add-ons" and etc (myself included). Just look at what Battlefield and Call of Duty are doing: no more season pass and free content updates (going from maps, to game modes and weapons). So, I'm not really sure if those people will buy add-ons for better quality airports or more detailed airplanes.

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

7 minutes ago, simtom said:

I'm not so sure about that. The people who will play MSFS through the Game Pass are gamers in the first place and they generally hate the words "DLC", "Add-ons" and etc (myself included). Just look at what Battlefield and Call of Duty are doing: no more season pass and free content updates (going from maps, to game modes and weapons). So, I'm not really sure if those people will buy add-ons for better quality airports or more detailed airplanes.

You are wrong. First of all there are no gamers and simmers. I use both. There is no issue in using both. We are all sitting in a chair in front of a screen enjoying different experiences, none of them real.

DLCs are not existing just in the flight simulator place 🙂 Even on Battlefield there are Expansions, there are micro transactions, on other games like Euro Truck Sim (which is not much of a sim anyway compared to our plane ones) there are maps DLCs, on Cities Skylines there are addons. I could go on, the point being DLCs have always been around for both those playing with a joystick and a plane flying in the sky and for those using a mouse and keyboard and pew pewing enemies

Edited November 16, 2019 by france89

[simtom 495]

4 minutes ago, france89 said:

You are wrong. First of all there are no gamers and simmers. I use both. There is no issue in using both. We are all sitting in a chair in front of a screen enjoying different experiences, none of them real.

DLCs are not existing just in the flight simulator place 🙂 Even on Battlefield there are Expansions, there are micro transactions, on other games like Euro Truck Sim (which is not much of a sim anyway compared to our plane ones) there are maps DLCs, on Cities Skylines there are addons. I could go on, the point being DLCs have always been around for both those playing with a joystick and a plane flying in the sky and for those using a mouse and keyboard and pew pewing enemies

I meant ‘gamers’ more in the sense of people who normally don’t play simulators.

I do know that DLC’s exist outside of flight simulation. And expansions are no longer a thing in Battlefield, it’s all free now.

Micro transactions is the better word, those things are hated right now.

Well, the games you give as example are more or less simulation games, where it is considered ‘normal’ to buy add-ons (don’t forget that a game like Skylines has a ton of free mods). 
 

So what I meant is that the regular Battlefield player won’t really buy add-ons for a simulation game. But it’s all speculation as of now 🙂

[FishermanIvan 110]

LOL are you word not allowed kidding me?

Feel bad for the “beleaguered” developers who may not be able to develop for a base sim that does everything better than they can?

Step it up, or fall behind.  Easy as that.  I’m sure as hell not spending another penny on P3D or XP11 till this is out.  Once it is, we can see what kind of aftermarket support it may or may not develop

[Greazer 1,320]

We don't share pity for products which were duly paid for. Flight sim is the number one most expensive program in terms of add-ons. It should be MS/Asobo's goal to put them out of business. Especially Orbx.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Greazer

[Baber20 1,438]

Did support them for past 10 years. Its not like they were giving out free stuff. Still going to support them if they do something out of the box for FS2020. Absolutely NOT going to give them a penny if they keep clinging on to p3d or xp thinking they can milk some more money from that market.

Honestly we dont need these sort of threads here.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Baber20

[Cruachan 705]

3 hours ago, pmb said:

BTW, why do we need another thread on this topic?

Hi Michael,

The short answer is we don’t. I was curious as to what reaction there would be in the forum dedicated to the sim that’s persuading some users to throw existing 3rd Party Development under a bus. I guess, from the uncompromising tone expressed by several responders to date, I have my answer. It’s disappointing, but having dared to enter the lion’s den I should not be surprised.

Regards,

Mike

[DaWu 779]

No I dont care at all for them. They sold me overpriced products. It was a business nothing else.