P3D v3 crash but no Event Viewer entry

[SteveW 1,792]

With no event it could be something to do with the GPU, an addon presents a bad situation for it and the sim can crash with no event. Even so have a look for events with nvi.

If a dll crashes we more usually get an error report with a dll or stackhash or ntdll. The reported dll as crashed may not actually be the culprit if others are involved.

Renaming the dll.xml and exe xml files for a test is standard practice during the elimination procedure. Also with P3D we can go to the Add-ons submenu and uncheck items there or rename xml files in the user add-ons folder.

 

The point about the folder C:\ProgramData\ is that the files there run for each user, whoever is logged in.

Whereas, the files (dll.xml and exe.xml) in the folder:" C:\Users\you\AppData\" run only for you, that user.

So we make sure no duplicate entries are created in each, we only want one dll instance or one exe instance of the type.

 

More about the folder:

"C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4"

is the physical location, but on older systems, can be found also duplicated as:

"C:\Users\All Users\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4

The C:\ProgramData folder is preferred because C:\Users\All Users folder does not appear on all PCs.

An add-on developer once asked my why I used C:\ProgramData and not C:\Users\All Users? Well now we know, since it might not exist in the future. In any case, Windows api and dll calls are usually used to return system path names, rather, the software doesn't actually know any paths.

 

Messing with alternative folder installation locations and symbolic links and alternative drives can lead to files being unavailable if a path is incorrect within the add-on. With P3D we see many add-ons with xml files defining their presence. These create more possibilities for problems of path misinformation. Therefore, a major thing to do regarding reliability within the system, is install P3D in the default or stock location and move add-ons around to other drives if need be, with the configuration possibilities. if addons write user data in there then simply add the modify allow permission to the Users group on the parent folder Lockheed Martin, subfolders inherit the rule.

 

 

 

[SteveW 1,792]

As Jim said a single texture can cause such a problem, it could be that it is corrupt, or incorrect in some way or maybe cannot be found. Could be a cloud, ground, aircraft or scenery texture or anything coming within range of the viewer. That can mean scenery that spans thousands of miles, not just 70 or so. Could be a loose connector on the GPU as well. Once the simulator is going without hiccups, introduce back some stuff. It seems like you are right on track and close to solving.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,919]

@Jim Young and @SteveW, unfortunately I cannot run with a default dll.xml as Concorde requires three DLLs to be loaded. From memory the only other entries are for asconnect, FSUIPC, GoFlight and Couatl. All pretty standard addons really and all run in my P3D v4 setup without problem.

I can only change one thing at a time when testing so I will stick to the 382.05 driver which another Concorde user has reported no problems with and completely default scenery. No addon stuff whatsoever. Irritating to say the least but the closer to default I can get this the better my chance of multiple clean flights.

Steve, just to reiterate there were no entries in Event Viewer for Errors in the last hour or 24 hours.

[SteveW 1,792]

Renaming those files is not necessary you can eliminate individual portions within. Most of those will be no problem at all, we know that. However one may invoke activity that runs into an issue presented, doesn't mean that dll or exe is the cause. So by elimination you may track that down. As always, the quickest way to find the cause of any issue is to eliminate half, then half again. In other words set up your sim as near to stock as possible, add things back.

[Jim Young 2,356]

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

unfortunately I cannot run with a default dll.xml as Concorde requires three DLLs to be loaded. From memory the only other entries are for asconnect, FSUIPC, GoFlight and Couatl

My asconnect entry is in the non-default folder (where the P3D.cfg is located.  Same with FSUIPC-5.  So that folder will not be changed.  Couatl is in the default dll.xml.  Just disable the one in the same folder as the scenery.cfg.  P3D will create a default dll.xml.  If you continue to get crashes, just delete the dll.xml and rename the one you renamed to dll.xml.  You can disable the ones you do not need too as suggested by SteveW. 

If you have Lorby_Si's Addon Organizer, open that up and go to the tools tab and check encoding.  If a config or xml is not encoded properly, then that could cause problems.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,919]

Jim / Steve,

Having given this some thought and discussed in on the FSL forum the general opinion appears to be that unless you run with Nvidia drivers 376.33 or earlier there will be problems with Concorde. They don’t go into detail as to what those will be but certainly FSL Spotlights for FSX/P3D will cause the DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE HUNG error. These crashes I’m getting with later drivers may well be the cause.

If that’s the case then nothing suggested by you both will cure the problem. Over in FSL users are effectively locking their systems to ensure no updates will cause problems. I’m not prepared to go down that route.

I’m crossing my fingers that when MFS comes out FSL will create Concorde for it. Otherwise my days with it are at an end.

Thank you both for your suggestions. Guess this is one unsolvable problem. 🤨

[SteveW 1,792]

Yep, it's most likely as I said, to be something you are throwing at the GPU, bad code unsupported driver, whatever will do it.

Even so it seems odd that the driver is blamed and that no resolution is available.

Instead can some graphic or thing be uncooked from the aircraft?.

Edited November 20, 2019 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

...also

I would make sure I am absolutely certain that this bug in the plane happens with a stock install into stock locations with only those things installed which are required to run the aircraft at a minimum is used.

If so that's it, the only other suggestion would be to tamper with the aircraft.

Edited November 20, 2019 by SteveW

[Ray Proudfoot 8,919]

Steve, the fact it loads three specialist DLLs tells you this is no ordinary aircraft. There are multiple sub panels that replicate the Flight Engineer’s panel. The aircraft really is a work of art. It’s implied that there could be problems with later drivers rather than an explicit warning. Covering their backs I guess.

I don’t see how any part of it can be modified without something breaking.

[SteveW 1,792]

That's right Ray, it is a complicated one.

[SteveW 1,792]

Let's say it's a gauge of some kind you might rarely refer to or without you can ascertain another way, even better it's the graphic of some kind of panel that you don't look at. Then that could be lifted from the panel or texture replaced. But anyway, the thing is you are chasing the idea of driver support for the GPU so that's a model part or texture that might not be so especially required. That's what I mean by cooking the plane.

[SteveW 1,792]

...but you need to be sure it's the plane first and whether or not it works on properly set up stock systems.

I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with your system but P3D is especially better suited to stock installs where addons are concerned.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,919]

14 minutes ago, SteveW said:

...but you need to be sure it's the plane first and whether or not it works on properly set up stock systems.

I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with your system but P3D is especially better suited to stock installs where addons are concerned.

Cooking the plane is not an option even if I knew how to do it. Every gauge is needed. None are there for cosmetic reasons.

What do you mean by a stock install? Program Files location? I put mine on D:\P3Dv3. Have done that for years. Learned it from Pete Dowson.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ray Proudfoot

[SteveW 1,792]

If you recall, I mention that P3D is especially problematic for some setups when not installed into the stock location. Even so, I've not seen any problems myself, but I don't install everything, I do get feedback all the time that weird issues are resolved that way as well - all the time.

But anyway, the natural start of a problem solving process with these programs is to start with a minimum requirements .

Although you may have been using places for years but introduced something lately, new version of windows as an example whereby folder names have changed which Jim and I discussed with you earlier..

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

FSL Spotlights for FSX/P3D will cause the DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE HUNG error. These crashes I’m getting with later drivers may well be the cause.

The DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG error is only caused by those who try to overclock or tweak their GPU with one of those tweaking programs that comes your GPU.  The DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG error does not happen to FSX/P3D products only.  It can happen to any software program if you just do a simple tweak using one of the tweaking programs.  It does not happen to everyone who uses one of those tweaking program and I am not sure why.  I use the ASUS GPU TweakII and click on overclock and it automatically overclocks the GPU.