One thing I have never thought about since now......

[Guest Jimbofly]

OK, here's how it works:The FDE determines how the aircraft's speed, attitude, heading, and altitude are affected. When the sim performs a calculation based on existing conditions and pilot input, the aircraft's position relative to the FS world changes. This new position is calculated and once that's done the world in the monitor updates to reflect that change.And there is ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT to performance. The FDE calculations aren't done on planet Earth, they are done on the aircraft. The view outside the window simply reflects what you are supposed to see when your position and attitude RELATIVE to the world changes.Please don't purport to know why performance is affected. It's not.James

[edetroit 933]

>Extactly James.>>A few years ago, my wife thought, since I seemed to be having>so much fun, she'd have me teach her to fly FS. Since I have>nearly 1000 hrs R/L experience and she's had her hands on the>controls of a C172 many times, I figured I could offer>insights that the average simmer wouldn't know about and it>would be fairly easy.>>Alas, it didn't work.....not even close! It totally baffled me>at first. If I asked her to make a left turn, she'd move the>stick right!!! To descend, she'd move the stick back. I was>dumbfounded because she is a very good driver and has no>trouble with coordination or any of the things that contribute>to driving. Then it dawned on me. I asked her, "to you, which>is moving, you or the scenery". Her response was immediate,>"the scenery, of course". No wonder!!>>Our attempts to "convert" her to a pilot's>out-the-front-window perspective was unsuccessful and she>finally gave up. No matter how much she tried, she could not>get past the idea she was stationary and the scenery is>moving.>>That's one of the biggest advantages a real pilot has over the>non-pilot in FS. We see it as you and your monitor are moving>and everything else is stationary. I'm sure that's the>"immersion factor" the developers want the user to experience.>After all, that's whats realistic, at least in my view.>>Cal>CYXX>Interesting! ... never for one second in my many years of FS flying have I thought I was stationary and the scenery was moving!I guess I must have the immersion factor! :-jumpy

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

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[viz 139]

A few years ago, my wife thought, since I seemed to be having so much fun, she'd have me teach her to fly FS. Since I have nearly 1000 hrs R/L experience and she's had her hands on the controls of a C172 many times, I figured I could offer insights that the average simmer wouldn't know about and it would be fairly easy.Alas, it didn't work.....not even close!This happened to me a few years back when I was showing Quake to my uncle, he was completely disorientated by the mouse view movement and couldn't grasp the idea that the mouse movement was the head/body movement of the character. Couple this together with the forward, back and side step... well let's just leave it there. ;)

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

for me there is no difference since the computer isn't actually moving a "world" or a "plane." It's moving bits in virtual space. As Jimbofly already points out, the way it works is you are at location X,Y,Z and facing direction W and the computer determines what you can see from that point looking in that direction. When your coordinates change, the sim calculates a new view. The FDE and AIR files are the "rules" controlling how you can change those coordinates. What you are talking about is closer to philosophy than comp sci and has no bearing on performance.

[Staffan 12]

>for me there is no difference since the computer isn't>actually moving a "world" or a "plane." It's moving bits in>virtual space. As Jimbofly already points out, the way it>works is you are at location X,Y,Z and facing direction W and>the computer determines what you can see from that point>looking in that direction. When your coordinates change, the>sim calculates a new view. The FDE and AIR files are the>"rules" controlling how you can change those coordinates. >What you are talking about is closer to philosophy than comp>sci and has no bearing on performance.>I understand your point of view. But for me it is quite an interesting subject, since I have always thought that when I push the throttles, it is infact the plane that moves, and not the scenery.If we for a second speculate in how the sim should be if infact it was the plane that moves, and the scenery was stationary.....well...to me that should mean much less processor load, since the simulator engine should not have to work that much....moving the whole world...:-hahhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

It's not a world. It's a virtual world. It doesn't actually exist. The computer doesn't consider anything beyond your line of sight (in so far as visual rendering is concerned.) Whether you want to see it as the plane moving around the world or the world around the plane doesn't change the calculations the cpu has to make at all. It's the same thing. You are here, here is what you can see from here. Ah, now you're here, and here is what you can see from here.

[Guest BOPrey]

Why on earth would you think there is a performance issue if it is done one way or the other?Two ways you can do this. When the plane moves, you change the coordinate of the plane, and the rest remain the same. This is how it works in the real world and how most people will do it; even for none programmer. I am afraid that in the simulation world (at least in flight sim), the sun still revolves around the earth. The second way, don't change the plane's coordinate, but move every other object backward. This does seem to take a lot of CPU cycles. However, people are not stupid. Programmers would just use a single variable to keep track of how much the scenery has moved. When it comes to implementation, people will quickly realize it is same as method number one.

[Staffan 12]

Well, that is your theory, and ofcourse I tend to not agree with you. :-)Lets think from a "10 year old" perspective for a sec.If we play with the though that we simulate a part of land , like in a movie setup, and place it on lets say 20 trucks. To move that piece of land take a lot of more horsepower to move than if only moving a Cessna....or?Instead of mass (lbs/kg) in real life, the sim loads a whole bunch of BGL and BMP texture files.http://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

[Guest]

Staffan, what happens when you slew? The scenery updates depending on the new location. What Jimbofly wrote is right (for once). The position of the plane is recalculated on each render and the scenery updates. Its that simple - but this aint going to help you fix any performance problem now is it.

[Staffan 12]

>Its that simple - but this>aint going to help you fix any performance problem now is it.Ofcourse not. :-)I am only trying to after 20 years of simming, trying to accept the fact that it is the scenery that moves, and not the plane. :-hahhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I guess if seeing it that way helps you get through the day then so be it. *:-*

[Staffan 12]

>I guess if seeing it that way helps you get through the day>then so be it. *:-* Yepp,..and I guess this issue must be "the most important" thing in my life right now. :-roll :-hahhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

[Guest BOPrey]

"To move that piece of land take a lot of more horsepower to move than if only moving a Cessna....or?"Wrong. I can assure you that it takes the same amount of force, in the case, the same CPU power, to move a Cessna across a piece of land or that piece of land across that same Cessna. Newton's third law.

[virtualstuff 750]

>>I guess I must have the immersion factor! :-jumpy>

>regards>>EdSame here :-lolAndr

[windycloud 30]

Plane is in motion and terrain remains static because all the dynamic computation is tied to the view point which is on the aircraft. They include for example, visibility, air dynamics, corodinates, etc.The linkage with realtime computation is the only way to judge what's "in motion or dynamic" and what's not in a computer game. In real life it depends on what your reference point is.