Dual architecture for FDE

[Dominique_K 10,138]

 Sebastian has confirmed that the new sim will have the old FSX FDE architecture and their new one to choose from.

It seems to me a strange idea, typical of marketing people willing to edge their bets.  

Strange and maybe obnoxious as it may stiffle the creativity of aircraft developers who could take the easy path. On the other hand, it will shuffle the card deck, helping to sort out those willing to embrace an innovative technology and those only interested by maximizing the cashflow.

My 2 eurocents.

PS he didn't say BTW whether the P3D aircraft would be compatible. More knowledgeable than me can correct me but it does not go without saying.

 

 

[nickhod 425]

Yeah, I think it's a bad idea.

What end user is going to think "hmm ... I can either choose between the best aerodynamics model in any flight sim, or the FSX 'on rails' mode. 'Rails mode' for me please".

The only reason for it to be in the sim is to allow 3rd parties to do low effort ports, and I can't see how that's a good for consumers, long term.

I hope that in the in-game add-on store, it's made very clear which aircraft are using 'legacy / rails' mode . Slap a legacy watermark over all their screenshots is my suggestion 😀

[skully 1,045]

Consider it a training wheels mode.

Case in point- you might think you're a good pilot in XP, FSX or P3D- Now go fly a warbird in DCS ot IL2 especially if you don't have rudder pedals.

[Dominique_K 10,138]

4 minutes ago, skully said:

Consider it a training wheels mode.

Case in point- you might think you're a good pilot in XP, FSX or P3D- Now go fly a warbird in DCS ot IL2 especially if you don't have rudder pedals.

The new FDE architecture will have three levels of complexity so the training wheels will be there all right. 

I fly the TF51 and L-39 in DCS and the A2A Mustang and the Lotus L-39 in P3D so I can see the difference.

BTW, try to take off  the A2A P-51 or do a straight rollout in a crosswind with their T6 without pedals  and come back to report  ... 

[HarryVoyager 21]

38 minutes ago, nickhod said:

[...]

The only reason for it to be in the sim is to allow 3rd parties to do low effort ports, and I can't see how that's a good for consumers, long term.

😀[...]

I can see it as a compatibility mode for legacy P3D and FSX aircraft, to facilitate a quicker transition to the new platform. Part of the challenge that MSFS 2020 has is there is a very large capability base already existing in P3D and FSX, that won't be fully replicated at launch. Further, implementing flight models with thousands of interacting surfaces is not trivial. Aircraft in IL-2 and DCS typically need years to get to a point where they are believable (see every Mirrage 2000 meme ever), while developers have already achieved remarkable realism just on FSX's single surface model. 

If this allows developers to quickly migrate their existing libraries over the MSFS 2020, it will allow people and groups who are built around P3D to more quickly migrate their services over to the new platform, rather than needing to wait for long spans until their core requirements have been rebuilt in the game. I think that will be a significant positive for the platform as a whole. Even if they don't get all of the features up front, they will still get some, which is always better than none. 

Yes, we'll get some droids with the wheat, but we were always going to get some bad 3rd party planes anyways, and the community seems to have been pretty solid at sorting the wheat from the chaff. 

[Christopher Low 5,352]

They could also be using it to coax even more P3D users over to the dark side 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Christopher Low

[Stratocruiser1 134]

49 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

They could also be using it to coax even more P3D users over to the dark side 

And all these years I thought that X Plane was the Dar Side.🛩️

[jon b 2,047]

A bit like going out to a top class fine dining restaurant and finding fried  chicken nuggets and a plastic tub of  bbq dipping sauce on the menu.

Having said that my kids would order the chicken nuggets every time , so I can see that the choice is a good thing.

[ca_metal 2,016]

Easy solution: If a dev is using the old model on his airplane, just don't buy it. Plain and simple. I know I won't be spending my money on something "subpar".

[rhumbaflappy 113]

If FSX planes can be imported to Dos Equis, then it may be the aerodynamics of the new engine cannot use the surface data needed for the new FDE. In that case, you'd need to use the old aerodynamics. No one is forcing you to use new or old planes in this case.

Perhaps a company like PMDG could offer updates to their older FSX planes for the sim, while developing new models that use the new aerodynamics, all priced appropriately. this would make a path for FSX 'investments'.

[Claviateur 789]

As long as the imported / legacy dynamics are clearly identified, no problem there, one can simply ignore to buy / download these... I think backward compatibility allows people to import their $$$ aircraft addons investment to the new simulator and feel good about it 🙂

Yet if the legacy models are installed, hopefully they will be clearly identified in the UI.

Also if the quality 3rd party aircraft addons are adapted from FSX and made to fly like the new MSFS dynamics allow, then so many addon groups will avoid reworking from scratch on the so many systems they developed for their FSX advanced models... But who knows, maybe the systems and gauges might need to be adapted as well...

Since I started creating scenery and flying in X-Plane 11 (as soon as it was in beta / 2016), I opened FSX just once a couple of years ago. I was curious to see how it feels now that I've tasted the realism of XP... I loaded an advanced addon aircraft I purchased back in the days for FSX yet after less than 5 min, I closed FSX and never opened it again... And I'm someone who knows MSFS since 1991 (V3) and FSX since it was released... All this to say that the difference in the flight dynamics behavior between FSX and XP11 was like night and day, clearly noticeable... 

So as far as I could see, the new MSFS has quality flight dynamics, just like XP it seems... So we might be able to quickly identify the legacy models just by trying them...

But a UI tag / label is a welcome feature to identify the free or commercial legacy planes...

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Claviateur

[shivers9 1,174]

Actually, I think the legacy decision means more than just using the older models to save money or that they may be you favorite. There are many out there who only fly an hour a week or maybe just weekends. Many may not have the time or desire to learn about things like lift, drag or the idea of stalling one wing just to name a few. If the flight models turn out to be as they indicate then flying these new planes correctly is going to require quite a bit more skill and practice. I think just to taxi with the new friction effects , if as advertised, is going to be much much harder for folks with out rudder pedals. We sometimes forget that there are folks out there who are very happy to "fly an airplane" with just a keyboard and two fingers.

Edited November 22, 2019 by shivers9

[Pilot53 544]

2 hours ago, rhumbaflappy said:

Perhaps a company like PMDG could offer updates to their older FSX planes for the sim, while developing new models that use the new aerodynamics, all priced appropriately. this would make a path for FSX 'investments'.

yeah $150 for the fsx port, and $350 for the new aero version.   🤣🤣

[MatthewS 761]

Well, I won't be buying any aircraft that don't support the new aerodynamics.

[Dominique_K 10,138]

12 hours ago, shivers9 said:

sometimes forget that there are folks out there who are very happy to "fly an airplane" with just a keyboard and two fingers.

There are and they deserve consideration but Asobo said there will be an easy mode. I just don’t see the need to this dual architecture. Wrong message to the dev. community.