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Unrest in the Sim Community

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16 hours ago, Max50 said:

I think there are two groups.

1. Those who are happy with their current sims and need MSFS to prove itself.

2. Those who are desperate for a new sim and look at MSFS as being something incredible.

All there is to it.

3. Those who would like to see an improvement and hopefully a more fully-featured sim but who can manage with what they have in the meantime and aren't going to get overexcited about something that's still some way off and is still something of an unknown quantity.

It's possible that I'm the only member of group 3, but I doubt it.

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7 hours ago, Scottoest said:

I think one big thing some 3PDs don't fully understand yet, is what a massive commercial boon MSFS is likely to be for them, assuming it mostly delivers on the promise we've seen thus far........

I suspect that third party developers are thinking about the possibility of increased sales with the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, but I also suspect that they are worried that a massive downturn of current sales (whether that is for P3D or XPlane) may just finish them off before they can get there.

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Christopher Low

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3 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

I haven’t read all of the thread and it’s obviously evolved since the first post, but I don’t think the flight sim is that different from any other online gaming community. Dominated by men + cloak of anonymity = turbulence. 

I think it's not even limited to online gaming communities or anything like that at all. It's a hobby, by definition something people do because it makes them happy, and that's why it's always a personal matter. As soon as the personal side is brought in on any issue there's loads of potential of conflict. I've read many exciting posts on MSFS but I've also come across a ton of posts which were downright annoying. If anyone is objectively concerned about MSFS for a good reason I give them full credit for what they post. This, however, is rare and many of the naysayers are yet to present a compelling argument against the new sim. I'm very certain the nature of many posts being purely personal is what makes the discussions boil.

 

Edited by threegreen
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6 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I suspect that third party developers are thinking about the possibility of increased sales with the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, but I also suspect that they are worried that a massive downturn of current sales (whether that is for P3D or XPlane) may just finish them off before they can get there.

That is true, and if companies do go down, I sympathise with the staff. But the new simulator is coming, and they will just have to bite the bullet and wait, just like us. If it somehow flops (looking very unlikely now) they should have a flood of sales anyway as the enthusiasts catch up on missed launches.

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Daniel Glover

P3Dv4 + XP11

MFS

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9 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I suspect that third party developers are thinking about the possibility of increased sales with the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, but I also suspect that they are worried that a massive downturn of current sales (whether that is for P3D or XPlane) may just finish them off before they can get there.

To add to what I posted above, I think the personal side of things is showing with some developers too. It's absolutely understandable that they're worried and it may turn into difficult times for some of them. Taking the risk of sounding callous, I have to say they just have to accept that and deal with it like any business has to with changes in the market. The major risk you're taking when you develop specifically for another product on the market is that at some point it's likely to be replaced by something new and more advanced and a lot of consumers will naturally jump ship and sign on for the new stuff. I do struggle to understand the sudden surprise at this actually happening now because it must have been clear to any developer that at some point things would change. Even if our hobby was progressing only slowly lately I don't think anybody actually assumed it would stay at this stage forever.

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25 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I suspect that third party developers are thinking about the possibility of increased sales with the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, but I also suspect that they are worried that a massive downturn of current sales (whether that is for P3D or XPlane) may just finish them off before they can get there.

I also think a lot of developers are also in a situation where their future is looking rather bleak, because their product may not even have a place in this new simulator, because it's already covered / something better is available by default. Quite a lot of developers have banked their entire existence on shining up a platform where almost anything provided was an improvement. 

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anyone remember the time where everything startet as freeware until they started to grab $

I really hope to see a new rise in freeware for FS2020!

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1 hour ago, threegreen said:

I think it's not even limited to online gaming communities or anything like that at all. It's a hobby, by definition something people do because it makes them happy, and that's why it's always a personal matter.  

 

I am from a country where there is a strong tradition of discussing, sometimes loudly, the world affairs at a "bistrot".  Forums are the bistrots of this age.It can be fun. And less dangerous than to drink wines, beers or strong spirits in any case. Post and drive.

Arguments are not always personal or innovative though. Like at the "Café du Commerce" we also see a strong tendency of some to follow as sheeps simplistic or wornout, if not rotten, reasonings : buyers are used as beta-testers (tell me something I don't know), greed rules the industry, developers milk us and lie about their products etc.  "All liars and propaganda" .

Testosterone and anonymity play their role, I think more women would bring another  tone. 

1 hour ago, threegreen said:

To add to what I posted above, I think the personal side of things is showing with some developers too.  

Developers or developer ?   

 

1 hour ago, Nedo68 said:

anyone remember the time where everything startet as freeware until they started to grab $

I really hope to see a new rise in freeware for FS2020!

My first payware were bought for 2k2,  meshes and the USLC from FSGenesis (now Toposim) and aircraft from FSD  if my memory serves me well. Freeware was still very dominant then. BTW, they didn't "grab" my Francs (the € was still a gleam in the eye of some politicians), they sold me wonderful products that hooked me back to the FS franchise after a long time with Fly! and FU. 

Frankly, I do not regret a New York minute the time when freeware was dominant. Even if I doodle freeware too when I get the inspiration.

 

 

Edited by domkle
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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On 12/1/2019 at 5:37 AM, Rob_Ainscough said:

Sorry but none of the above is accurate.

Its got nothing to do with the new sim itself, its how the PR campaign was prematurely delivered that has triggered so much angst.  This left many developers with products they’ve invested considerable money into that will likely not recover the projected income to earn a profit or break even.  It could have been managed much better and all drama could have been avoided, but it wasn’t.

Cheers, Rob

 

That’s how gaming industry works. Games are announced at least 1 year before release, and much earlier in big productions.

So MS and Asobo have the power to announce their product whenever they want, because it’s their investment, their product, and their choice.

Just the same as other 3PD does with their products (I’ve seen products announced years ago which are still in development, and nobody complains about that, and shouldn’t). 

What I don’t understand is why people expect that users buy 3P add ons forever in an outdated platform. At least MS give us the opportunity of saving some money prior to new sim release. 

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What puzzles me is why so many flight simmers are refusing to purchase any more addons for P3D or XPlane when the release of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator is so far away. I will be buying the P3Dv4 versions of ORBx TrueEarth GB Central and GB North when they are (hopefully) released this month, and I expect to be able to get more than my money's worth of enjoyment out of them between now and the release date of the new simulator.

For an industry where users are normally desperate to buy every new shiny addon that appears, it strikes me as rather strange that a lot of them are suddenly happy to make do with what they already have.

Using myself as an example...

I recently purchased ORBx Edinburgh because I was desperate for a more up to date layout for the airport. The fact that it failed to meet expectations is a side issue, although rather disappointing.

I intend to purchase ORBx TrueEarth GB Central because I am desperate to finally remove Horizon VFR UK Photographic Scenery England and Wales from my hard disk.

I am actively looking for decent quality photoscenery of Belgium because I am desperate to purchase JustSim/Digital Design EBBR Brussels (and I need better scenery surrounding it than default rubbish).

Do you see a pattern here? Yes, the graphics in those screenshots and video clips of Microsoft Flight Simulator look amazing.....but it is a year away from release, and nobody knows whether it will include everything right off the bat.

Edited by Christopher Low
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Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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11 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

For an industry where users are normally desperate to buy every new shiny addon that appears, it strikes me as rather strange that a lot of them are suddenly happy to make do with what they already have.

Nothing odd about it.

At some point you decide you've thrown enough money at the old clunker and decide to just buy the new car.

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12 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

What puzzles me is why so many flight simmers are refusing to purchase any more addons for P3D or XPlane when the release of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator is so far away.

I think it's pretty easy to figure out..

For many people, MSFS looks to be a completely revolutionary leap and they've totally lost interest in the current offerings.  


But - even if a user hasn't lost interest in what's out right now, they've simply decided to at a minimum not pour more money into a platform they likely won't be using at all once MSFS releases.

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Or.

Maybe there's nothing much to excite the loosening of purse strings. When was the last 'foaming at the mouth' thread about a new aircraft/scenery/w.h.y? Not counting MSFS of course.

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It's AVSIM Jim, but not as we know it.

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1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

 

For an industry where users are normally desperate to buy every new shiny addon that appears,  

Using myself as an example...

 

Your premise is wrong, I think, Christopher,  you are maybe not the right  example. I certainly not desperate to buy every new "shiny" addon in view. I am selective in what I buy and I would say like most simmers. Not even a question of money. I fly and enjoy each of my aircraft for months, same for the sceneries. 

Also after 13 years of FSX/P3D I have a lot of what I wanted and to get what I still want very much will only come with FS20 : SE Med and Near East, Japan, Caribbean, SE Asia etc. Aircraft ? I am tempted to move to airliners but I hesitate as FS20 will come in a not so distant future. You say one year, I say maybe six months.  

 

Edited by domkle

Dominique

Simming since 1981 - Prepar3D v3 on a 4770 @ 4.4 GHz and a 1080 @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals -

 

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There are plenty out there simply getting on with what they have now, too busy flying. And like Chris, continue to add stuff to their sim because that's part of it for them. Personally I'm looking forward to the new sim and hope it does the business.


Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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