offline mode -- landclass? does anyone know?

[sightseer 895]

Does anyone have any info on the offline mode as to whether it use the old landclass style of scenery or something else?  It cant be orthos.

Im talking about the initial default install of the game/sim.  I know they said we can download areas for offline operation but does that mean its like XP where there simply isnt anything unless and until we download it?

any info at all?  Im a big fan of offline mode especially with todays interactive online games.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

No LC, they say in one of the video or in an interview that off line will use degraded orthos with all the autogen on top . 

[bonchie 2,305]

1 hour ago, sightseer said:

Does anyone have any info on the offline mode as to whether it use the old landclass style of scenery or something else?  It cant be orthos.

Im talking about the initial default install of the game/sim.  I know they said we can download areas for offline operation but does that mean its like XP where there simply isnt anything unless and until we download it?

any info at all?  Im a big fan of offline mode especially with todays interactive online games.

It is not land class. 

It will be generic textures (probably based on orthos) but the building placements will be taken from the same data as the online mode. Because it's procedural from there, it doesn't require a lot of space to have that data locally stored. You won't have photogrammetry of course. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by bonchie

[Mace 1,902]

By "orthos", you mean "photos", am I correct?  As in photoscenery?

Since it will still be procedural, it should have grass, etc. close in?

[Dominique_K 10,133]

1 hour ago, Mace said:

By "orthos", you mean "photos", am I correct?  As in photoscenery?

Since it will still be procedural, it should have grass, etc. close in?

Yes an 'ortho' is an aerial photograph or satellite imagery geometrically corrected ("orthorectified") such that the scale is uniform.

I remember they spoke of buildings and trees. Not the grass.

[Ikaro 31]

sightseer, your best bet is to go and watch Feature Discovery Series Episode 1: World.

It gives a much better explanation than a discussion on the minutiae of a vaguely defined term like "landclass".

[Christopher Low 5,338]

1 hour ago, domkle said:

No LC, they say in one of the video or in an interview that off line will use degraded orthos with all the autogen on top . 

That's offline mode out for me then.

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

2 hours ago, domkle said:

No LC, they say in one of the video or in an interview that off line will use degraded orthos with all the autogen on top . 

I'd be curious to hear the source on that one. Looking at the little they've shown of offline mode, there is no ortho visible. As has been mentioned above, I believe most, if not all of the terrain textures will be procedural in offline mode based on available data (I say most because a few places in default FSX used ortho, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some high detail areas that still use it in offline). Basically a more advanced version of landclasses, but with accurately placed buildings.

You can see an example of offline mode in the first feature discovery episode at this specific time: https://youtu.be/BZL5PCZO8cc?t=429

[Dominique_K 10,133]

This is what I understand at the 9’ mark

 

[sightseer 895]

17 hours ago, HughesMDflyer4 said:

I'd be curious to hear the source on that one. Looking at the little they've shown of offline mode, there is no ortho visible. As has been mentioned above, I believe most, if not all of the terrain textures will be procedural in offline mode based on available data (I say most because a few places in default FSX used ortho, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some high detail areas that still use it in offline). Basically a more advanced version of landclasses, but with accurately placed buildings.

You can see an example of offline mode in the first feature discovery episode at this specific time: https://youtu.be/BZL5PCZO8cc?t=429

Brandon - I believe you are the most correct here. A 'more advanced version of landclass' that generates textures from a source.  The example pic of Seattle in offline mode -- if that were underlying orthos and that was done for the entire world, the HDD space would be excessive imo.  I havent figured out what they're doing.  I would love to see offline default Jackson Tennessee.  Have they found a way to create higher res ground textures without the HDD space that that should take?

 

17 hours ago, domkle said:

This is what I understand at the 9’ mark

 

Dominique -  I dont speak French.  What does he say that makes you say its 'degraded orthos'?  To me the term 'degraded orthos' means very low resolution and that pic in the video linked by Brandon does not look 'very low resolution'.  Id be very happy to have that detail all over the world at a minimum.

[nickhod 425]

22 hours ago, sightseer said:

Im a big fan of offline mode especially with todays interactive online games.

Why? Internet speed concerns?

Why not just download and enjoy higher quality stuff? 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

18 minutes ago, sightseer said:

Dominique -  I dont speak French.  What does he say that makes you say its 'degraded orthos'?  To me the term 'degraded orthos' means very low resolution and that pic in the video linked by Brandon does not look 'very low resolution'.  Id be very happy to have that detail all over the world at a minimum.

Oops, I am sorry, Dave,I posted that a bit late and a bit tired and using both English and French I got mixed up. A Q&D translation 

We have also an offline mode, if there is absolutely no Internet. It looks very much like reality, it is very, very accurate, we just remove a little bit of the photosat accuracy which is more simplified but all the houses, all the trees, all the roads, all the lights, all the relief are still here.

I highly doubt that that LC are back as the wholeterrain engine would have to be very different.

PS Sébastian uses the word 'fidèle' which can be translated as accurate or true. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by domkle

[sightseer 895]

@domkle -  I listened again to episode 1 and I heard Lionel say that textures were generated at runtime.  The term landclass to me refers to any 'paint by number' system where an area of ground is painted with a texture as defined by a landclass file(s).  Orthophotos are not landclass as I think of it (even though in a way they would be).  If the textures are generated at runtime (aka painted at runtime) then there has to be a definition file (a landclass definition file).  Its obviously not the 1.2 square kilometers that many of us are used to but i still think its some sort of what I would call landclass.

I still cant figure out how they do it that though.  By definition, having more datapoints means more data.  How do you have higher res without higher res data?

I had a wild idea a while back of taking satelite photos and instead of thinking of it in terms of colors you think of it in terms of grass or dirt or asphalt or whatever and then you could run length encoding or something to cover large areas of ground simply defined as grass or asphalt or trees.  Then you create a bunch of texture creators that are have variety thrown in so they dont all look the same (like dirt more yellow, more red, more <insert color here>).  A texture synthesis system such as this should be able to cover the world with good resolution textures using much less HDD space.  I think maybe this is what they are doing.

One thing I have discovered for sure though is that these ideas I have, Micrsoft seems to have had them if not before I did then at the same time.  Its like HPs making ICs that have tiny solar generators embedded in them so that they can be powered with light.  I had that idea and then HP said they made a circuit board using that tech.  Ive got all kinds of ideas...never get paid for any of them.  oh well 🙂 

[Mucker 93]

I wonder how varied the autogen will be, especially for different regions of the world and how good the textures will be?

I expect they will be PBR but I hope they are much more varied and regional than vanilla Xplane.

[bonchie 2,305]

On 12/3/2019 at 1:56 PM, Christopher Low said:

That's offline mode out for me then.

I don't remember them saying that. And the pictures we've seen of offline mode certainly don't look like ultra-low resolution orthos. "Degraded orthos" could just be getting lost in translation. He may mean something different than we are taking it as.

And even if they went with like ZL14 (I don't think it comes lower), there's still too much data there to cover the world and store it locally. Whatever they are using looked generic to me.

Edited December 5, 2019 by bonchie