Can someone give me some hints on timing?

[MDFlier 2,031]

I'm on my 3rd attempt at the SOP 2 voice tutorial. I must be really missing something here. I am nowhere close to being able to get even the basic tasks completed before the 25 minute timer is expired. If I start at cold & dark, the FO will power up the aircraft and leave for the walk around. I immediately run the steps on the preliminary preflight procedure. After that,  I have to pull up my (simbrief) briefing, and start programming the CDU. I start with payload, then I call GSX catering and fuel, and then I do the position init, then page 1 of route info, then departure / arrival info, then finish page 2 of route info (KMCO CAMDT PATOY Q116 JAWJA MGM SQS KF33E KK39C LBL HALEN ZPLYN3 KDEN). At some point, the fuel truck arrives, so I need to input the fuel on board. Next, I need to open/close the doors for the caterers. After fueling, I go to the EFB to do the performance calculations so I have the derate information that I need to input into the N! settings page. Then I go to the takeoff page and set the wind, slope, and flaps, then go to the legs page to d/l the winds aloft. then to the descent page to input the descent forecast, and finally to the approach page (I guess I could do this enroute). By now, the FA has asked me if it's okay to board, and the FO is over there changing pages on the 2nd CDU. Why is he doing that? He has no idea what is in the briefing. Hence, he has no idea what to input. It messes up my flow when he changes which screen is active and I have to switch from whatever he was doing in the FMC portion to the FS Actions menu. By the time I have all this done, I'm at +12 on the timer. Without FS2Crew, going from cold and dark to pushback usually takes me about 35-45 minutes. I have no idea  to shorten the time required so that I can input all of the data required for the flight and still be able to interact with FS2Crew the way that it was designed. I feel like I'm racing it... And losing badly.

Can someone give me a clue as to how all of the basic tasks can be accomplished within the time constraints given. I am completely confused.

Edited December 6, 2019 by MDFlier

[byork 2,258]

Good thing you're not working for a LCC with your 45 minute setup time 🙂

I might suggest setting everything up first, then run the FS2Crew Pre-Flight events.

Two things to note about the Pre Flight events:

1. They are optional.

2. You can fast forward the time down.

 

[MDFlier 2,031]

LOL. I'd be fired within a week, I'm sure. But to be fair, in real life I'd have spent an hour doing the derate calculations, etc, over a cup of coffee in the crew room before even stepping onto the airplane. 

Fast forward??? I need rewind. Or a pause button. 😉

Edited December 6, 2019 by MDFlier

[AirbusCG 52]

During our preflight flow we only set up the route, perf init and emergency turn (fix pages).

Calculating the takeoff performance is only done after the loadsheet arrives, so it is the last thing before going offblock.
Maybe this expedites your turnaround a little.

Once you're used to them the whole procedure will take you maybe 10-15 minutes, including the setup and briefing.

For the first flight of the day the aircraft is usually prefueled and catering, etc. is done over the night long before we arrive at the aircraft. This may expedite things for you a little if it is GSX that's holding things up.

[ebaez12 0]

http://www.support.fs2crew.com/help/manuals/default.aspx?pageid=normal_checklist2#pageid=captain___pilot_flying_flows2

 

 

[MDFlier 2,031]

On 12/6/2019 at 12:22 AM, AirbusCG said:

During our preflight flow we only set up the route, perf init and emergency turn (fix pages).

Calculating the takeoff performance is only done after the loadsheet arrives, so it is the last thing before going offblock.
Maybe this expedites your turnaround a little.

Once you're used to them the whole procedure will take you maybe 10-15 minutes, including the setup and briefing.

For the first flight of the day the aircraft is usually prefueled and catering, etc. is done over the night long before we arrive at the aircraft. This may expedite things for you a little if it is GSX that's holding things up.

This was very helpful. It made me realize that I was trying to incorporate things that aren't crew duties into the crew workflows.

I changed my routine up and manged to get a pretty good handle on things. Now, the first thing I do when I start a flight is turn on the battery and ground power and immediately call for catering and fuel. While they are doing their thing, I set the ZFW in the CDU and tune Com 1 to 122.0 to get the field winds, temperature, and pressure that I need to do the takeoff performance calculations in the EFB. After fueling is complete, the EFB can read the weight and balance numbers from the airplane so I can complete the takeoff performance calculations using the weather info I collected. Now I have the temperature and de-rate information I need. Once I've done all of that (the maintenance and FBO duties) are done, everything is set so I can perform my flight crew related duties as usual within the FS2Crew time constraints. When the time hits 25 minutes prior to departure, I start the PF activities.

It's working fine for me now. I usually set the time for my flights in P3d to 45 minutes prior to departure. I "chase" live flights from Flightaware, so I have to input their flight info into Simbrief roughly an hour before departure to give me time to get everything running. This also gives me time to customize the vehicle positions in GSX if the flight starts off at a gate I've never used before and I need to do that. I can wait for a departure, but it isn't going to wait for me, LOL.

That being said, I'm thoroughly enjoying FS2Crew. I should have tried it a long time ago.

Final edit: Thank goodness I can finally just call for gear up instead of actually having to concentrate on trying to get the bloody gear lever to go up with the mouse. I refuse to press G after simply right clicking on the handle all this time in the NGX. In the NGXu, you gotta right click it once to get it to the off position, then you have to left click the lock trigger, and then right click the handle again to get it to go up. I get that PMDG wants to be accurate and all, but come on. I can't be doing all that right after takeoff...

Edited December 7, 2019 by MDFlier
spleling errorz

[BobKinSTL 5]

This thread is now several months old but very timely for me.  I had everything done with plenty of time to spare in the NGX but I recently bought the NGXu and now I'm trying to be as realistic as possible with the EFB while also running FS2Crew and it's stressful.  Granted, I am still on the steep side of the learning curve with the EFB and ACARS.  The "what" needs to be done "when" to make things flow smoothly is a learning process.  Making ACARS talk to ASN16 is another issue.  I'm also now using the SimBrief download tool to define file paths so I can use ACARS.  I could do it manually in about a minute but still enjoy trying to figure it out.  One big pet peeve of mine, though very minor, is having the FO put the cruise altitude in the pressurization panel.  If he's back from the walkaround and I'm still fidgeting around and haven't done the Perf Init yet, it doesn't get done and I have to set it myself.  On top of all that, The VATSIM controller is probably wondering if I'm ever going to push back and go.  The learning continues!

 

Bob Koehler

 

[MDFlier 2,031]

I've got a pretty good handle on the NGXu flow now, Bob. I mostly use SOP 2 voice control. I can get all of the preflight and a good chunk of the arrival setup done within the 25 minute preflight. You just gotta do things in the right order so that you always have the data to input before you need it. It does require a bit of bouncing around the cockpit, but it's pretty intuitive once you understand why you do things in this order. I load the flight at the gate cold & dark 30-35 min before departure time. It looks like a long procedure, but it's really not. Don't forget to to the pre-flight check list and departure review when appropriate.

To start things off, I get GSX rolling and set the airplane W&B parameters

1. Attach jetway
2. Request refueling
3. Request catering.
4. While catering and fuel services are on their way, set ZFW on payload page (note # of pax and add 6 crew if you need to input Souls On Board in Radar Contact or other ATC program).
5. Enter fuel on board quantity from briefing on fuel page (when prompted by GSX). 
6. Start preflight event in FS2Crew as soon as refueling is complete and catering calls for doors closed.

As soon as FO gets things powered up.

1. Perform O2 tests (at mask)
2. Test cockpit voice and flight recorders
3. Test stall warnings
4. Turn on IRSs
5. Tune Com1 to 122.0 and get METAR ( I write down winds, field temp, and altimeter setting) - Set altimeter now

Preflight

1. CDU POS Init page - enter airport ID and select proper coordinates
2. Advance to CDU Route page and input departure airport, arrival airport, and flight number
3. Press DEP/ARR button - select departure runway, SID, and transition point (if available)
4. Press LSK  for "Index" (bottom left) to go back to the DEP/ARR page. Set Arrival runway (and type of approach). STAR, and transition point. (You can also use index to go back again and select the approach and runway for the departure airport just in case you need to turn back - but its not necessary to complete this flow)
5. Press RTE to get back to route page. Use page down to get to the actual route. Use your briefing to find and input any missing waypoints in your route. (there are usually just a couple between the SID transition and STAR transition that you previously selected on the DEP/ARR page - which is why I do DEP/ARR before inputting the route). Be sure to close any open legs.
6. Advance to the Perf Init page. Set cruise altitude, cruise winds, cruise altitude temperature, fuel reserve, and cost index (all from briefing) This is usually about where the FO comes back from his walk around
7. Do not advance to the N1 Limit page yet (you still need to calculate the derate temperature) Instead, Press the Legs button, then RTE Data, then Winds Request. Load and Execute (This step causes the airplane to build and activate the flight plan so Active Sky can load it. It needs to be done before the performance calculations coming up so we can obtain the destination airport METAR to set the winds, temperature, and QNH when we get to the EFB landing performance page in optional step 15 below).
8. Press DES button, then Forecast, then request winds. Load and execute.
9. On EFB - Initialize flight, click Terminal Charts, edit chart clips as appropriate. (Departure airport - I add "Parking Gates" and the SID chart, which leaves 3 total (you can also add the "turn back" runway approach plate and STAR chart if you programmed them in back in step #4). Arrival airport - I add "Parking Gates", the STAR chart, and the arrival runway approach plate which leaves 4 total
10. Go back to main EFB menu and select Performance. (If you didn't get the METAR earlier - do so now)
11. Click "WT & Balance". Click "SHOW KYBD". Click "FUEL". Fill in "Taxi out fuel" (I use Simbrief, which usually plans for 500 lbs) and "Planned trip fuel" ("Burn" on my Simbrief plan)
12. Take a note of your landing weight at the bottom of the screen. I write it down to make sure my en route landing weight calculation is in the ballpark later when setting approach vRef before I get to TOD. 
13. Click "Complete" to get back to the "Performance - Takeoff" screen. This is approximately where the FA asks if she can start boarding. I tell her yes, and start GSX boarding.
14. Verify TO Airport and Runway at the top, Select COND as appropriate (dry/wet/etc). Input surface wind, OAT, and QNH from METAR. I usually select TO-1 in the RTG drop down to start with. Select Flaps 5, AC on, AI off and click Calc (if it doesn't work, set RTG to plain TO and hit calc again). You should see "SEL TEMP" at the bottom of the page. This is the "assumed temperature" for the NI Limit page on the CDU. 
15. (Optional) - Click "Show Landing". Tune Com1 to 122.025 and get arrival airport METAR. Fill in associated parameters and hit Calc.
16. On CDU - Go to the NI Limit page, input assumed temp from step 14 at the top and select appropriate derate setting. 
17. Select Takeoff. Fill in 2nd page page first. Select RW Cond (Dry/Wet/SK-R), set RW slope (zero) and set RW Wind (from departure METAR). At this time, I get the heading for the departure runway from this screen and set it in the MCP Heading window.
18. Go back to Takeoff page 1. Fill in Flap setting (usually 5), click CG% button twice (set trim wheel at this time), and select V speeds by clicking the soft key next to each one.
19. Press INIT REF button, then LSK for <Index, then select Approach
20. Input Landing Weight from step 12 under Gross WT and select flaps 30 vRef.
21. If aircraft has HGS installed, input runway length shown on CDU into HGS panel.
22. Set MCP Course windows (PF & FO) to approach course shown on CDU as well as inputting LOC frequency into Nav1 and Nav2 standby. 
23. Go to EFB Terminal Charts, open landing runway approach plate. Get touchdown zone elevation (TDZE) and input it into the HGS panel elevation setting (if installed) and also to verify that the FO has set the Landing Alt correctly on the pressurization panel. I correct it now if he didn't (Remember to always round up to the next 50' increment).
24. While I still have the approach plate open, I usually go to the FS2Crew approach briefing page and fill it in at this time. I set the approach type (RNAV / ILS / etc.) first so it sets the minimums section to either radio or baro, and then input the appropriate minimums altitude, final approach, and go around altitudes. I set the minimums as appropriate on the glareshield panel now, and then press RST to hide it (I'm not sure if this is really necessary, but it does pop back up later on approach so I keep doing it. My OCD likes to see a clean ND).
25. Set my "guess" initial cleared altitude in the MCP Altitude windows (I usually add 5000' to the field elevation and set it to that rounded off to the next 1000' level, then I add 100' to remind me that I still need to input what ATC really wants later on. Example: Field elev 1560'. I would set to 7100' on the MCP). Turn on both FDs, arm the A/T, activate LNAV and VNAV.
26. Perform the departure briefing.    

Believe it or not, I'm usually here waiting for the FA to say she's ready to close the door. I usually change the ND setting from Map to PLN, set the range to 40, press LEGS on the CDU, and step through the flight plan to make sure that it looks good. Then I set it back to map view, 5 mi range, and then pull the Takeoff page back up on the CDU. Shoot. Not only am I set up for take off, we've also got her all set up for landing as well. Before TOD, I do the recommended SOP2 departure prep, but I pull a new METAR for the destination airport and do the Enroute landing section in the EFB. Then I calculate landing fuel from the Prog page and compare it to the EFB enroute page and my preflight landing weight calculation from step 12 to make sure it all looks sane. This is also a good time for me to check the airport map for taxi directions.

I hope this helps! 

Edited July 5, 2020 by MDFlier

[MDFlier 2,031]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:18 PM, BobKinSTL said:

Making ACARS talk to ASN16 is another issue.  I'm also now using the SimBrief download tool to define file paths so I can use ACARS.  I could do it manually in about a minute but still enjoy trying to figure it out.  One big pet peeve of mine, though very minor, is having the FO put the cruise altitude in the pressurization panel.  If he's back from the walkaround and I'm still fidgeting around and haven't done the Perf Init yet, it doesn't get done and I have to set it myself.  On top of all that, The VATSIM controller is probably wondering if I'm ever going to push back and go.  The learning continues!

Was "ASN16" a typo?

Edited July 5, 2020 by MDFlier

[BobKinSTL 5]

MDFlier, thanks for replying and posting your procedures.  Clearly a lot of time went into it and I appreciate you sharing.  Since my original post I have also made a lot of progress and even with using the EFB I find that I usually click down the timer several minutes on the FS2Crew Preflight page.  Also, I rarely do C&D startups, simply in the interest of time, so I created my own transit turn state and use a slightly modified version of SOP 2.  As for "ASN16" I was referring to Active Sky and an issue that I think you addressed in Line 7.  I still need to try it but I think you are saying that when you request and load the winds on the Legs RTE page, it populates the flight plan page of Active Sky.  I have been loading ASN from my downloaded files that I generate from SimBrief using the downloader tool, but I will try as you suggest. I do the weight & balance and assumed temp calc's for the takeoff page, but I don't do any landing data in the EFB until during flight.  I also upload the descent winds, even though I did that once during preflight as they may have changed.  A nice little trick I learned from a real life YouTube pilot, during flight when about to do your descent checks, if you go the the Prog page, subtract the difference between current fuel and landing fuel, usually for short haul flights it will be around 2,000 lbs.  Subtract that difference from the gross weight in the upper left and enter that amount as the gross weight. Example, GW is 138.5 and the difference between current fuel and destination fuel is 2000 lbs., enter 136.5 in the GW lline and this will change your landing ref speeds by about a knot, you can then double click to enter that as your flap/speed data, then press the delete key and press the gross weight line key and it will return the GW to the current/actual weight.  Maybe that's redundant if using the EFB and unnecessary but I find it to be useful and can be done at any stage of the flight.  For your Line 18, instead I use CG and V speeds from the EFB.  Nor do I use terminal charts, I find having Navigraph on a separate monitor with SimConnect is a much better option.  

Thanks again, always great to share best practices.  

Bob

 

[MDFlier 2,031]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:55 PM, BobKinSTL said:

As for "ASN16" I was referring to Active Sky and an issue that I think you addressed in Line 7.  I still need to try it but I think you are saying that when you request and load the winds on the Legs RTE page, it populates the flight plan page of Active Sky. 

Exactly what I was saying. 

On 7/15/2020 at 3:55 PM, BobKinSTL said:

A nice little trick I learned from a real life YouTube pilot, during flight when about to do your descent checks, if you go the the Prog page, subtract the difference between current fuel and landing fuel, usually for short haul flights it will be around 2,000 lbs.  Subtract that difference from the gross weight in the upper left and enter that amount as the gross weight.

I do that as well. Keep in mind that there are 2 landing reference pages. On the ground before the flight, I do the "regular" landing page. Prior to TOD, I do exactly what you said with the prog page, but then I cross check it against the output from the 2nd "enroute" landing reference page.