Will Default GPS be available in all default planes?

[vortex681 806]

11 hours ago, Fielder said:

Yes I use a candlestick dial phone made in the 1920's. Works just fine on a landline or over voip adapter. It is so much cooler than the modern stuff. Carry the same type of phone you all do, but when not in a hurry its the old for me.

And you’re point is? I didn’t say I preferred NDBs, it was a response to @snglecoil who said you’d be lucky to find one operational these days. There are still many in use worldwide in areas which don’t have VORs (and in some which do). They’re still in use for IFR letdowns in the UK - NDB to ILS: https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2018-11-08-AIRAC/graphics/3132.pdf

[snglecoil 1,828]

I took a 17 year hiatus between actively flying. GPS was a thing back in the late 90’s, but hadn’t yet gained traction in many GA cockpits. One of the planes I trained in had an early panel mounted GPS. Another was even equipped with a LORAN receiver. When I went for my private check ride, I was tested on NDB operation/navigation.

Today, yes there are still quite a few NBDs operational even in my area. However, none of the 15 or so planes that are available for me to rent are equipped with operating ADF receivers in order to actually use those NDBs. VORs are increasingly down or portions of the signals are unusable so that’s even becoming problematic. 

The simple truth is that GPS is becoming (or has become) the de facto standard for navigation today. It helps to mitigate so many of the day to day operational difficulties of legacy navigational aids. GPS is not infallible, so yes, it is important to understand how to navigate using a variety of techniques and sources. What frustrates me is the machismo that accompanies “old school” pilots (of which I consider myself one) that forego the incredible increase in positional awareness afforded by something as cheap as an iPad in the cockpit just because GPS is too easy. All you have to do is follow the magenta line. Give me a break. If you are a lazy pilot, you are going to be lazy no matter what equipment you use. 
 

So to get this back to some relevancy to the topic at hand, yes please include GPS in every default plane where it makes sense. If they come out with a default P51...then no. A Wright Flyer? Ha, how funny would that be! But again...no. Any other modern panel, though, yes please!
 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

32 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

  If they come out with a default P51...then no.

 

I am very happy with the civilian version of the A2A P-51 and glad to have modern navigation instruments. That makes a great cruiser.

 

 

[carmined 132]

9 hours ago, snglecoil said:

I took a 17 year hiatus between actively flying. GPS was a thing back in the late 90’s, but hadn’t yet gained traction in many GA cockpits. One of the planes I trained in had an early panel mounted GPS. Another was even equipped with a LORAN receiver. When I went for my private check ride, I was tested on NDB operation/navigation.

Today, yes there are still quite a few NBDs operational even in my area. However, none of the 15 or so planes that are available for me to rent are equipped with operating ADF receivers in order to actually use those NDBs. VORs are increasingly down or portions of the signals are unusable so that’s even becoming problematic. 

The simple truth is that GPS is becoming (or has become) the de facto standard for navigation today. It helps to mitigate so many of the day to day operational difficulties of legacy navigational aids. GPS is not infallible, so yes, it is important to understand how to navigate using a variety of techniques and sources. What frustrates me is the machismo that accompanies “old school” pilots (of which I consider myself one) that forego the incredible increase in positional awareness afforded by something as cheap as an iPad in the cockpit just because GPS is too easy. All you have to do is follow the magenta line. Give me a break. If you are a lazy pilot, you are going to be lazy no matter what equipment you use. 
 

So to get this back to some relevancy to the topic at hand, yes please include GPS in every default plane where it makes sense. If they come out with a default P51...then no. A Wright Flyer? Ha, how funny would that be! But again...no. Any other modern panel, though, yes please!
 

How dare you!!!  You mean to tell me you want all these whipper snappers just putting in navigation points into a GPS and weaken their pilotage and dead reckoning skills with VOR's?  Not to mention all those rusting E6B's!  How will they ever get to point B safely by not paying close attention to checkpoints and BY GOD MAN have you GONE MAD suggesting that an external elctronic device being turned on in the cabin is ok and not cause interference with navigation instruments?  You know you can't takeoff and land without all laptops and cellphones turned off or at least the screen to make it look like it's off anyway.  There's nothing better than hitting you're marks and seeing those VOR needles flip when you're over a station.  These GPS's will be the death of us in the skies and on the ground with all these unsafe gunslingers everywhere.  They'll probably come up with some dang fangled system next where we won't have to worry about situational awareness and alert you to other aircraft while they play fortnite.  😛

Edited December 24, 2019 by carmined

[Mace 1,908]

14 hours ago, ckyliu said:

@vortex681 @Fielder

I have a red GPO 706 from 1959 (refurbished 1973), and it still works fine without any electronic trickery, just popped a resistor in it and modern plug on the back. Although I never use it and it's really an ornament/curiosity, I do occasionally call it just to hear that iconic ring! On the downside you can't use it with call centre menus. On the plus side, watching people under the age of 30 trying to dial out on it is hilarious!

This got me thinking about the last time I used a rotary dial phone.  Probably in the late 80's.

I wish I had one now.  At the time, it was no big deal, but now it would seem strange.

[gsand 105]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:02 AM, vortex681 said:

And you’re point is? I didn’t say I preferred NDBs, it was a response to @snglecoil who said you’d be lucky to find one operational these days. There are still many in use worldwide in areas which don’t have VORs (and in some which do). They’re still in use for IFR letdowns in the UK - NDB to ILS: https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2018-11-08-AIRAC/graphics/3132.pdf

And there are still some published NDB approaches in the US:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1913/05369n5.pdf#nameddest=(SHD)

There are also a number used for LOM's, including the above referenced approach (airport also has an ILS 5), so they're not dead here yet.

Edited December 27, 2019 by gsand