No More Photogrammetry Trees?

[azulkb 302]

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

... Hence the apparent move back to individual FSX/P3D style "autogen" tree models, instead of the simple photogrammetric tree meshes are a big compromise, see above.

 

The whole world will not be photogrammetic but only 400 areas.

Outside of these areas what did you expect?

[Tuskin38 6,451]

1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

Exactly... Hence the apparent move back to individual FSX/P3D style "autogen" tree models, instead of the simple photogrammetric tree meshes are a big compromise, see above.

 

You can still see photogrammetic trees in the other cities shown in the video. They haven't removed them completely.

Also as mentioned above, they've already said the entire world won't have photogrammetic trees, only certain cities in the world will have them. 99% of the rest of the world will be autogen.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Tuskin38

[RALF9636 1,904]

58 minutes ago, azulkb said:

The whole world will not be photogrammetic but only 400 areas.

Indeed. All these photogrammetry discussions are inflated. 99 % of the sim will not be photogrammetry.

 

[mSparks 2,086]

13 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

If they had called this video "Let the trees grow", I would be a little worried. But the video is about snow. The news about trees is that the photogrammetry trees have been replaced. And since this is the first time we've seen this, it's obvious that it is work in progress.

I appreciate the humble request of the OP to reassess the size of the trees. But to make up such a drama?

At least what happened in this thread is a nice demonstration of why there is an NDA for the Alpha tests.

 

 

15 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Indeed. All these photogrammetry discussions are inflated. 99 % of the sim will not be photogrammetry.

 

From: "They fix it soon"

To: "It was always planned this way"

In just 13 short hours. Oh my.

TBH, I was under the impression it was " 99 % of the sim will be photogrammetry."

High quality, hi res ortho + autogen is already freeware, why would anyone pay for it, let alone wait in line to do so?

Edited January 3, 2020 by mSparks

[n4gix 4,947]

15 hours ago, MatthewS said:

Got it now?

Everyone got it the first six or seven times. Give it a rest already. Please try to be less confrontational and avoid calling other people "trolls" or otherwise insulting them.

[MatthewS 761]

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

Also as mentioned above, they've already said the entire world won't have photogrammetic trees, only certain cities in the world will have them. 99% of the rest of the world will be autogen.

Well by photogrammetric I'm talking about the simple mesh "tree blobs" how ever their actual height and shape is derived (photogrammetry in the 400 cities or elsewhere via some inference).

So having mixed types ("tree blobs" and "autogen" trees) is really a bad idea, visually jarring.... Just give us a single consistent approach, either "tree blobs" or "autogen" trees, not both.

Edited January 3, 2020 by MatthewS

[n4gix 4,947]

8 hours ago, alkan said:

For instance, ever heard of occlusion culling? (of course you haven't, because you know as much about computer graphics as you know about computational flight dynamics and modelling...) It's one of techniques used to reduce the number of those triangles (breathe, they can't hurt you now) that actually have to be sent to the GPU in a VBO or something.

Don't forget the power of geometry instancing either...

...which among other things allow for random  texture changes applied on drawing each "instance" of the bones and mesh.

Quote

An outdoor scene with lots of vegetation and trees, many of which tend to modify their attributes (for example, trees and grass swaying in the wind), and lots of particle systems. This is probably the best scenario for the Geometry Instancing API.

https://developer.nvidia.com/gpugems/gpugems2/part-i-geometric-complexity/chapter-3-inside-geometry-instancing

[Claviateur 789]

I am not sure I understand the flow of discussions here. But am I right to think that we try to play down the power of Asobo's Engine?

I don't work for Asobo or Laminar but I design scenery for X-Plane 11 since it was released and No, X-Plane 11's engine can't be compared to Asobo's.... Not the same generation... 

Focusing on oversized trees is bizarre. These trees are easy to fix... Procedural trees can be adjusted with scripts and rules... And these "autogen" trees or whatever we call them, are way more controllable and practical than Photogrammetry trees. Surely, a better strategy for so many reasons: Like type variations, seasons etc.

And this Courchevel scenery is not a relevant example to compare the engines.

[MatthewS 761]

12 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Focusing on oversized trees is bizarre. These trees are easy to fix... Procedural trees can be adjusted with scripts and rules... And these "autogen" trees or whatever we call them, are way more controllable and practical than Photogrammetry trees. Surely, a better strategy for so many reasons: Like type variations, seasons etc.

Yes they should be easy to fix... So Asobo please fix them for your next update and maybe try a little harder next time you release an official video?!

[Claviateur 789]

12 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Yes they should be easy to fix... So Asobo please fix them for your next update and maybe try a little harder next time you release an official video?!

Sorry to ask but do you develop any software or add-on? I work in a dev team for a  living and I design scenery for XP (and previously FSX) as I mentioned in the previous post.

When you preview a software or feature in a software during dev phase, you have no choice but to include/show unfinished state of a feature or portions in the software. I do this when I preview my scenery during dev time... Every dev/company does this...This is normal... 

I am not saying Asobo will fix or not fix these for the release but I remember seeing non functional / stiff gauges in the first video(s) they released and now they are functional...

I think simply that this video was done when Asobo were just replacing/working on procedural dynamic trees to replace the photogrammetry... As it happens in the company where I work, the Marketing team asks us to deliver screenshots to show the application while a feature or more are not done yet... It could be that MS Marketing team decided to release a teaser for the holidays and Asobo had to show what they have so far... As we do at my company, as I do for my scenery 🙂

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Claviateur

[n4gix 4,947]

13 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Yes they should be easy to fix... So Asobo please fix them for your next update and maybe try a little harder next time you release an official video?!

I recall asking politely to refrain from continuing to beat the drum. In the spirit of Frozen just "Let it Go..."

[MatthewS 761]

6 minutes ago, n4gix said:

I recall asking politely to refrain from continuing to beat the drum. In the spirit of Frozen just "Let it Go..."

So what is the point of this thread if not to debate the OP's topic?  Just lock the thread then?

 

Anyway... good idea, I'll "Let it Go" before I get banned (again).

Edited January 3, 2020 by MatthewS

[jpc55 185]

2 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Just lock the thread then?

And this would make you think you had won.  

[MatthewS 761]

50 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Sorry to ask but do you develop any software or add-on? I work in a dev team for a  living and I design scenery for XP (and previously FSX) as I mentioned in the previous post.

When you preview a software or feature in a software during dev phase, you have no choice but to include/show unfinished state of a feature or portions in the software. I do this when I preview my scenery during dev time... Every dev/company does this...This is normal... 

I am not saying Asobo will fix or not fix these for the release but I remember seeing non functional / stiff gauges in the first video(s) they released and now they are functional...

I think simply that this video was done when Asobo were just replacing/working on procedural dynamic trees to replace the photogrammetry... As it happens in the company where I work, the Marketing team asks us to deliver screenshots to show the application while a feature or more are not done yet... It could be that MS Marketing team decided to release a teaser for the holidays and Asobo had to show what they have so far... As we do at my company, as I do for my scenery 🙂

 

Yes I am a developer (not Flightsim).

Yes I understand, the "steam gauges" have never worked AFAIK, unlike the trees which were the correct scale but are now not the correct scale. 

You hypothesise about a lot but I'm looking at actual evidence (official video from MS) that Asobo have currently got the tree scale wrong.

Of course I have some confidence Asobo know what they are doing, so hopefully Asobo will demonstrate trees scaled correctly in the next video.

Not sure why anyone thinks my argument is controversial, to the contrary it's the crystal ball gazing sages, with no evidence to support their views, that are "flapping in the breeze" (as usual).

Edited January 3, 2020 by MatthewS

[Claviateur 789]

49 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Yes I am a developer (not Flightsim).

Yes I understand, the "steam gauges" have never worked AFAIK, unlike the trees which were the correct scale but are now not the correct scale. 

You hypothesise about a lot but I'm looking at actual evidence (official video from MS) that Asobo have currently got the tree scale wrong.

Of course I have some confidence Asobo know what they are doing, so hopefully Asobo will demonstrate trees scaled correctly in the next video.

Not sure why anyone thinks my argument is controversial, to the contrary it's the crystal ball gazing sages, with no evidence to support their views, that are "flapping in the breeze" (as usual).

Nice to meet you then 🙂 we come from the same world... Development. Well I am actually a PO in a dev team + UI/Usability design experience/background...

So I am sure you agree that any dev team on this planet, when asked by the Marketing team, will deliver previews that could be way off from perfect / polished / finished...

And I am just trying to use my real life experience on this forum each time I see people having their panic mode enabled following any preview video from an under development software... And they know it..

Anyways, I think people can certainly share their personal opinion regarding a software or a product. At this stage, I think it is a good thing to share our observations, such as: We think the trees are a little too big or the tree types are not accurate for NY, while knowing that it is still work in progress...

There was a panic mode about Seasons, and I mentioned back then that the Engine is powerful enough to deliver dynamic seasons and here we see this becoming reality...

This is why I think the panic mode is more relevant only when the software will be released and some flaws or bugs started to ruin the experience of users... This is when, users will have the full rights to point any bug or flaw in the simulator that we think the development team must address in their patches and updates.