P3Dv4.5 CTD - Powered USB Hub Failed or other issue

[richjb2 195]

Hello everyone,

Just a bit of knowledge share here.  In November, I built a new i9900K ASUS ROG Z390-E computer.  I was wanting to get ahead/ready for MSFS 2020 and run P3D with something more than 15 FPS in sparse scenery!  I was hardly able (1 out 10 flights) to complete a P3D V4.5 flight with my new set up without a CTD.  Very frustrating.  I saw some issues in Event Viewer trying to fix them.  One in particular keep occurring:

Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.5.13.32097, time stamp: 0x5d8abf93
Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 10.0.18362.418, time stamp: 0x99ca0526
Exception code: 0xc0000374
Fault offset: 0x00000000000f9269
Faulting process id: 0x2da8
Faulting application start time: 0x01d5c023470d67bf
Faulting application path: H:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\Prepar3D.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
Report Id: f51a2e9f-bd62-480d-b112-19da7a358028
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 

 Exception code: 0xc0000374 is a "Stack Heap" error, whatever the heck that is. I posted this error on the LM PD3 Forum and on Avsim's Hardware Forum.  On the AVSIM forum, Tony P lead me to an issue fellow simmer Ray Proudfoot experienced. Ray ran it to ground with the MS Engineers as described here:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/directinput-causing-l-m-prepar3d-v4-to-crash/20c20b5d-4261-4b13-8a58-375c387b7b3e

This issue was a failed/failing Powered USB Hub or a USB hub that was not Win 10 compatible.  I have a rather extensive GoFlight Hardware setup including a GF 166 five unit COMM/NAV/XPDR panel.  

I have been noticing for the past few weeks following the new setup that on P3D start up and/or a preflight check with the GoFlight Configure software that not all of the units of the GF166 were operating. In fact, sometime none of them would work.  I would unplug and replug in the USB.  Sometimes it would work.  Some time it would CTD, and always with the Exception code: 0xc0000374 error code. Ray's information pointed to the Powered USB hub.  

I replaced my D-Link USB hub that came with the GF 166 that's about 4 years old with a new one from Best Buy.  I flown two flights without a problem.  Also restarted P3D with all five units on the GF 166 working each time.  Strongly suspect that my old Powered USB Hub was failing or failed and not providing enough power to the USB Port.  The signal drop outs, which could be heard over the computer speakers (chimes, dings, dongs, whatever), were usually followed by a CTD with the above error message. 

I thought this was a software issue either with the Win 10 OS, P3D, or the GoFlight Config software.   Instead, it looks like it was a hardware issue. 

Passing this along so that others don't have to experience the frustration I had t he last few weeks. Hope it helps!

Happy New Year!

Rich Boll

Wichita KS 

[Speedbird 217 126]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm getting regular CTDs (ntdll) with the FSLabs, usually in cruise. I have tried countless fixes like rebuilding my entire system, removing OC, even downclocking my CPU/RAM and it keeps occuring. Lately I have started to wonder if my external HDD could be causing this when it automatically turns off after being idle for a while. It's always plugged in an on, but it sometimes powers off if idle for a while. Any idea if this might also cause an ndtll and could be the culprit?

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, Speedbird 217 said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm getting regular CTDs (ntdll) with the FSLabs, usually in cruise. I have tried countless fixes like rebuilding my entire system, removing OC, even downclocking my CPU/RAM and it keeps occuring. Lately I have started to wonder if my external HDD could be causing this when it automatically turns off after being idle for a while. It's always plugged in an on, but it sometimes powers off if idle for a while. Any idea if this might also cause an ndtll and could be the culprit?

Normally, the ntdll error occurs when the cpu voltages are too high or too low.  This is why AVSIM recommends going back to the Optimal defaults in the BIOS.  Some people have fixed this problem by renaming their p3D.cfg and letting it rebuild.

Your HDD is most likely not at fault.  When there is a hardware problem, your system should trigger a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD).

The aircraft from FSLabs is not at fault.  You have another add-on that is not compatible.

Did you update your drivers.  There are updates to the sys bus, usb ports, hdd's, etc., etc.  Just search the Internet.  I use Driver Booster and, when I first installed my brand new system, Driver Booster found a lot of updates.  It's free.

Best regards,

Jim

[Speedbird 217 126]

14 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Normally, the ntdll error occurs when the cpu voltages are too high or too low.  This is why AVSIM recommends going back to the Optimal defaults in the BIOS.  Some people have fixed this problem by renaming their p3D.cfg and letting it rebuild.

Your HDD is most likely not at fault.  When there is a hardware problem, your system should trigger a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD).

The aircraft from FSLabs is not at fault.  You have another add-on that is not compatible.

Did you update your drivers.  There are updates to the sys bus, usb ports, hdd's, etc., etc.  Just search the Internet.  I use Driver Booster and, when I first installed my brand new system, Driver Booster found a lot of updates.  It's free.

Best regards,

Jim

Thanks Jim. I tried optimised defaults In the past and the problem still exists. I even clocked down my CPU and memory vs factory and it still happened. Tried reinstalling my entire system, problem still exists.

The OP says that his NTDLL was caused by a USB issue and this caught my intention as I asked myself whether a disconnecting external USB HDD inflight might have the same effect.

There’s actually a few people over at the FSL forum with similar issues. Now I know the FSL pushes the system harder than anything else, but it’s also the only time I’m experiencing the NTDLL issues. No problems with other addons like PMDG. I only use native P3Dv4 addons, so not aware of any issues with those. Also got no problems in other applications or games.

I’ll have a look at Driver Booster and see if it finds anything I may have missed.

[Jim Young 2,356]

There are many who have had the infamous ntdll.dll error even as far back as fs9 (maybe FS2K2).  I have had the error several times over the years and once, Ray and I worked together in resolving an ntdll/StackHash error we both were getting (turned out to be aircraft textures belonging to US Air Force AI aircraft installed by MyTrafficX.  We just knew it was MTX and not the exact reason).

The latest ntdll I had was with ASP4 about a year ago.  I would be sitting at a Wash Dulles (FlightBeam) gate in a PMDG 777 or CS 757 in heavy weather (it really did not matter the aircraft).  At the gate or just after takeoff, the sim would crash and throw the ntdll.dll error as the faulting module.  I could replicate it 100% of the time but only in heavy weather.  If it was just raining or drizzling, no crash.  It had to be heavy weather. I sent a trouble ticket to HiFi explaining the issue.  Before DaveO could diagnose it (he's very good), I remembered the AVSIM CTD Guide where it was recommended the dll.xml (there are usually two in P3DV4 or higher) should be renamed and the sim restarted.  I had not done this yet and decided to give it a try while waiting for an answer from HiFi.  Set up similar scenarios with heavy weather at Dulles.  No crash at the gate.  No crash at takeoff and no crash at cruising level.  I would reactivate the dll.xml's I had renamed, run the scenario with heavy weather and immediately got a ntdll CTD.

I knew it had to be one of the modules being loaded by the dll.xml's but which one?  I had so many.  I remembered Carenado installed the CMeteoXml.dll.  I had heard it was most likely the gauge was used for depicting weather in Carenado aircraft.  I knew that everyone who owned P3D had this module installed as some Carenado aircraft were installed as the default in P3D.  I disabled CMeteoXml in the dll.xml and the crashes stopped.

So, this is part of the "fun" we get whenever we get an unexplained CTD in P3D or FSX... spending many hours, days, and weeks searching and investigating the cause(s) for a faulting module like the ntdll.  Lockheed Martin could have made it much easier for me by showing CMeteoXml.dll as the faulting module but it threw the ntdll.dll instead.  As I remember, Carenado said it was an issue with P3D and not Carenado and Lockheed techs were going to issue an update to P3D to fix it.  The problem went away after an update to P3D was released. 

The AVSIM CTD Guide, page 35, provides other possible fixes I found while searching all FS forums around the Internet.

 

[marco1284 0]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

I noticed in your issues you think it might be a hardware matter? I have had similar problems with my Saitek throttle system or Logitech Joystick to which where it works then does not at times. Unplugging works temporarily then does not. I dough little deeper into my system and found out that a power setting and install of a software called Linda help resolve most of the common problems. (https://flightsimeindhoven.com/2015/09/30/usb-disconnects/) (https://flightsimeindhoven.com/apps/linda/) . Added I did some links and hope they do help. When it comes to power management, ensure you have certain settings modified to suite your needs if you are using hardware features i.e joystick and throttle systems. Having enough power for your USB Hubs is essential, also avoid unplugging hardware during operations for this I know will cause CTD. I plug my hardware in before I start loading my sim just to ensure it will not give me problems. 

 

Good Luck!