Is there any hope for Bing Maps?

[767lover 285]

Looking closely at the maps, I do get a little frustrated sometimes, as the resolution is quite low in some places and out of date. If FS used google as the data source, it would be quite different.

Now I know this has been discussed before and the developers mentioned that any updates would be imported into the sim, but I have not seen any change from the day MS was announced, till now, in particular 3d cities. Perhaps they have resources we do not have. That would be great!

Of course, Bing Maps is a already a huge improvement over what we had, so in that sense, this is complaining at a very high level! 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by 767lover

[ca_metal 2,021]

23 minutes ago, 767lover said:

Looking closely at the maps, I do get a little frustrated sometimes, as the resolution is quite low in some places and out of date. If FS used google as the data source, it would be quite different.

Now I know this has been discussed before and the developers mentioned that any updates would be imported into the sim, but I have not seen any change from the day MS was announced, till now, in particular 3d cities. Perhaps they have resources we do not have. That would be great!

Of course, Bing Maps is a already a huge improvement over what we had, so in that sense, this is complaining at a very high level! 

 

I wouldn't say Google is a better source. There are places where Google's imagery is really poor and Bing's is better.

Where google really shines and is way ahead of any other Map service is on the photogrammetry coverage. But even on that feature, I think Bing can look better, but the coverage is way too limited (basically limited to the US and some cities around the globe). In a positive note, Jörg Neumann said, in one of the interviews he gave on the X019 event, that more 3d cities are comming and are on the works right now, unfortunately he didn't say when nor how many cities are coming (probably because he can't, as he isn't a dev for Bing Maps, they are just using Bing as the source for the scenery). 

[Anthracite 131]

I guess what we have to look forward to is continual improvements to world authenticity as Bing maps get's better... but how long that takes and what it will cost (if anything) is nebulous at best.

[MikeT707 1,181]

1 hour ago, ca_metal said:

In a positive note, Jörg Neumann said, in one of the interviews he gave on the X019 event, that more 3d cities are comming and are on the works right now, unfortunately he didn't say when nor how many cities are coming (probably because he can't, as he isn't a dev for Bing Maps, they are just using Bing as the source for the scenery).

It would be good if Microsoft would provide this information on an ongoing basis so the communities that utilize Bing Maps would have a sense of what we can look forward to.

[Tuskin38 6,491]

I also imagine that there might be data that Bing has that isn’t public yet, but Developers have access to.

So I wouldn’t take everything you see on bing maps to be representative of what the game would have.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Tuskin38

[GlideBy 324]

8 hours ago, 767lover said:

I have not seen any change from the day MS was announced, till now, in particular 3d cities.

They are updating it though - https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2019-11/more-birds-eye-imagery-has-been-released-and-static-maps-api-support-added

And their sources keep updating their info, which MS then processes in batches.  So you may not see an area change, then suddenly you see a lot of changes.

[tweekz 2,165]

17 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

I also imagine that there might be data that Bing has that isn’t public yet, but Developers have access to.

So I wouldn’t take everything you see on bing maps to be representative of what the game would have.

Plus, they are working with that imagery. If you just slam it into the sim, you have that ugly transitions between images with different resolution / color / season ... then they are using that image data to create 3D autogen buildings out of it with their AI.

There is pretty much tech involved. This is probably only feasible since Microsoft is a tech giant with all those technologies under its roof. So yeah... Google has better coverage overall, but it would be unrealistic to have someone else gather all that resources from different companies and bring them together to a product.

[desbean 357]

Microsoft isn't making this sim just to make flight simmers happy. This sim wouldn't ever have happened if that was their biggest goal. It's a platform to advance Microsoft technology into the future including Bing Maps.

[dtrjones 356]

18 hours ago, GlideBy said:

They are updating it though - https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2019-11/more-birds-eye-imagery-has-been-released-and-static-maps-api-support-added

And their sources keep updating their info, which MS then processes in batches.  So you may not see an area change, then suddenly you see a lot of changes.

Birds eye imagery is of no use. But yes they must be updating so eventually we'll see improvements.

[ca_metal 2,021]

3 hours ago, desbean said:

Microsoft isn't making this sim just to make flight simmers happy. This sim wouldn't ever have happened if that was their biggest goal. It's a platform to advance Microsoft technology into the future including Bing Maps.

That's the way I see it also. The simulator will take advantage of the improvements the other Microsoft's services are getting not the other way around. 

We just have to hope the bing roadmap will match the simulator needs.

[dtrjones 356]

3 hours ago, desbean said:

Microsoft isn't making this sim just to make flight simmers happy. This sim wouldn't ever have happened if that was their biggest goal. It's a platform to advance Microsoft technology into the future including Bing Maps.

Probably true but thankfully those at Microsoft who think that way are not the people developing the sim. Asobo and the Microsoft Flight Simulator team seem as passionate as any team I have witnessed developing video games and that includes the likes of Rockstar, Blizzard, Valve...

[Shack95 2,658]

Poor source imagery resolution doesn’t necessarily mean poor graphics in the sim. As we can see in the Courchevel and the Kilimanjaro footage, the scenery can look great from up close despite the poor quality of Bing’s imagery. The solution seems to be procedural 3d textures.

Unfortunately, we don’t have much information regarding this feature yet and it is still a bit of a mystery to me how the scenery will eventually look like up close. Will we only have 3d grass or will there be shrubs, rocks, gravel, dust, sand, tarmac etc.? Will there be procedural road textures like in Courchevel? (or is this one handmade)? How will the transition from satellite imagery to procedural texture look like, i.e. at what altitude will they “fade in”?  Will there be procedural ground textures in photogrammetry areas? (I doubt it, at least in the Renton and Southampton landing footage this doesn’t seem to be the case). I’d really love to see a discovery feature video answering these questions.

[ca_metal 2,021]

17 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

Poor source imagery resolution doesn’t necessarily mean poor graphics in the sim. As we can see in the Courchevel and the Kilimanjaro footage, the scenery can look great from up close despite the poor quality of Bing’s imagery. The solution seems to be procedural 3d textures.

Unfortunately, we don’t have much information regarding this feature yet and it is still a bit of a mystery to me how the scenery will eventually look like up close. Will we only have 3d grass or will there be shrubs, rocks, gravel, dust, sand, tarmac etc.? Will there be procedural road textures like in Courchevel? (or is this one handmade)? How will the transition from satellite imagery to procedural texture look like, i.e. at what altitude will they “fade in”?  Will there be procedural ground textures in photogrammetry areas? (I doubt it, at least in the Renton and Southampton landing footage this doesn’t seem to be the case). I’d really love to see a discovery feature video answering these questions.

If you look some of the older screenshots you can see those. You have to open in a new tab and zoom in to see them.

Here you can see some shrubs:

Here you can see shrubs and rocks:

 

About sand and dust (sandstorms on the desert would be cool) I didn't see anything.

Edited January 12, 2020 by ca_metal

[Dominique_K 10,144]

2 hours ago, Shack95 said:

 

  it is still a bit of a mystery to me how the scenery will eventually look like up close. Will we only have 3d grass or will there be shrubs, rocks, gravel, dust, sand, tarmac etc.? 

I agree, it is still very much unknown. And it is not only the transition from imagery to ground textures but also from imagery to ground objects (boulders to pebbles, bushes etc.). That why I really look forward to a sequence in the bush, in one of these nice Idaho dirt strips for instance.

[ual763 361]

Regarding sand/dust storms... This data is available from the source they are using (MeteoBlue).  They’ve also stated before that they control dust particles in the atmosphere.  So I would imagine Haboobs will be a thing!