MSFS 2020 Crash Physics?

[ErichB 3,638]

43 minutes ago, dikkeduif said:

Not sure why people here are acting so shocked and disturbed by the question. Weird.

It's not about being shocked or disturbed.  It is about the usual perversion of something by a minority which usually renders unwanted consequences for all.  Because some people can't help themselves.

Combat sims like DCS are entirely different

Edited January 22, 2020 by ErichB

[FDEdev 955]

7 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

I agree that discussing the crash detection on and close to the ground and the question of a visual representation of (minor) damage is reasonable.

E.g. the shredded tires on certain DCS aircraft do look very realistic and such failures will be hopefully included.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

25 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

E.g. the shredded tires on certain DCS aircraft do look very realistic and such failures will be hopefully included.

I not so fondly remember landing in Siberia hard winter once in a Tu154 with dubious tires...

Edited January 22, 2020 by domkle

[dikkeduif 56]

45 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Combat sims like DCS are entirely different

I have to disagree with that. Sure a combat sim simulates a different aspect of flying, and visual damage is a big part of it, but there are non combat aircraft in DCS for doing acrobatics as well. It is really helpful to receive visual and/or audio feedback if you're overstressing the airplane for example, potentially causing some parts to fail. It makes you better at flying. I don't know why flight simulator would not include something similar. That some people will abuse this for making crash videos on youtube shouldn't deter the developers from including it. If you are bit creative almost every game can be abused 🙂 

But again, I just hope some damage modeling (visual or not) is included.

[HiFlyer 9,343]

2 hours ago, GlideBy said:

And if that is too much for you, then ask for the option to turn it off.

This subject comes up from time to time. You will find that those against this will not be swayed by the option to turn such effects off, as historically they don't seem to be actually worried about themselves. The real desire is to preclude the option for anyone else.

You get the same effect when you mention fighter jets being allowed to do what real fighter jets actually do.......

It's one of those community peculiarities I puzzle over from time to time because of its general universality (it seems quite deeply ingrained) combined with its arbitrariness. (Who draws these lines and for what logical reason, when every other aspect of possibility, down to the number of rivets on a given plane, is coupled with insatiable demands for veracity in all aspects..... except for hitting the ground, whereupon, some.... unknown dynamic kicks in.)

Brace for being called a monster/ghoul/child, and most horrible of all, gamer etc, until eventually the thread is locked.

Meanwhile you can see plane crashes in detail in practically any other genre of media and pretty much nobody bats an eyelash since it's just a fact of life. It seems to be a simmer thing. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by HiFlyer

[Dominique_K 10,133]

 

12 minutes ago, dikkeduif said:

I have to disagree with that. Sure a combat sim simulates a different aspect of flying, and visual damage is a big part of it, but there are non combat aircraft in DCS for doing acrobatics as well. It is really helpful to receive visual and/or audio feedback if you're overstressing the airplane for example, potentially causing some parts to fail. It makes you better at flying. I don't know why flight simulator would not include something similar. That some people will abuse this for making crash videos on youtube shouldn't deter the developers from including it. If you are bit creative almost every game can be abused 🙂 

But again, I just hope some damage modeling (visual or not) is included.

Again, this already exists in P3D/FSX : stuck landing gear (up or down), broken flaps, engine fire, indication of terminal failure due to overstress and I don't see why it shouldn't be in the new sim.  Nothing new. But the OP started the thread on another direction with the .GIF he added of an airliner on a vertical trajectory to the ground. 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

12 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

 

 

It's one of those community peculiarities I puzzle over from time to time because of its general universality (it seems quite deeply ingrained) combined with its arbitrariness. (Who draws these lines and for what logical reason, when every other aspect of possibility, down to the number of rivets on a given plane, is coupled with insatiable demands for veracity in all aspects..... except for hitting the ground, whereupon, some.... unknown dynamic kicks in.)

 

Decency ?

[HiFlyer 9,343]

1 minute ago, domkle said:

Decency ?

You do realize that these planes are about as real as Tom slamming a hammer into Jerry's foot in a cartoon, right?

By the criteria that you seem to be suggesting, all war Sims would be indecent, not to mention car racing Sims, shooters and Etc.

The list would be quite extensive and would probably have to be extended to print, screen, and all other media, unless the argument is that flight simulation is a special case.

 

[FDEdev 955]

5 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

You do realize that these planes are about as real as Tom slamming a hammer into Jerry's foot in a cartoon, right?

Cartoonish crash/damage behavior is the case in most sims, just take a look at the example in this thread, or look at the various weird damage anomalies in DCS.

Again, if the 'restricted' damage simulation is sufficient for multi million dollar sims, it is certainly for me in a desktop sim as well. If you look e.g. at DCS it's obvious that not flying but shooting, bombing and killing are the main targets of this sim. ED wouldn't sell much if there wouldn't be any 'real' damage modelling or explosions.  

[Dominique_K 10,133]

38 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

 

 

I will not go astray in generalizations (and yes, I play my share of RPG, survival games etc.).

 Let's get back to the topic as framed by the OP. Do you think desirable and decent to see a "realistic" end to his GIF ? Do you think desirable and decent to see in the sim how looks the crash of an Airbus in the highrises of a large city ?  My opinion is that it is neither desirable nor decent.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by domkle

[ErichB 3,638]

The argument against elaborate crash modelling in civilian sims is a risk based argument. 

It is not as simple as an computer generated aircraft crashing into computer generated scenery.  The way many people like to use their sims involves significant branding of airlines and aircraft manufacturers.   Using (misusing) a civilian simulator to publicly display elaborate crash scenes with United, British Airways, Cathay Pacific or any other significant airline with Boeing or Airbus branded simulated aircraft is (potentially) damaging to the brand(s) involved when on wider display to Youtube audiences 

Therefore, the risk based approach is to disallow this type of ability in sims to a reasonable extent to prevent something we all do not want - airlines and/or aircraft manufacturers banning their brands from use in civilian sims.  People need to think beyond what is in front of them. 

 

[martin-w 3,234]

I recall in a podcast with the dev team that visual damage was asked about. They mentioned the licensing agreement and said they would do what they could, within the confines of that agreement.

So there you have it MS/Asobo will give you as much damage as they can get away with, short of freaking out the aircraft manufacturer. 

Aircraft manufactures are notoriously funny about this stuff.  Their product crashing in a ball of flame on YouTube freaks them out. I mean Gulfstream wont even allow any simulation of their products whatsoever, threatening to sue the pants of anyone that does. 

 

Edit: I recall that the same applies to car racing sims. Car manufactures don't want to see their cars getting wrecked either. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by martin-w

[HiFlyer 9,343]

6 minutes ago, domkle said:

I will not go astray in generalizations (and yes, I play my share of RPG, survival games etc.).

 Let's get back to the topic as framed by the OP. Do you think desirable and decent to see a "realistic" end to his GIF ? Do you think desirable and decent to see in the sim how looks the crash of an Airbus in the highrises of a large city ?  My opinion is that it is neither desirable nor decent.  

Desirable/decent isn't really part of my thought process when watching pixels on a screen depicting a non-existent plane crash. Its something I've actually put quite some consideration into in the past when watching certain movies.

Was I watching anything "desirable" when viewing megadeaths (some quite gory) in a movie?

The conclusion was that if what I was watching was "real" I would have qualms.

The fact that what I am seeing up on that screen (or reading in that book, or experiencing in that game/sim) is not "real" allows me to (for instance) watch New York be blown up in Independence Day, while calmly eating my popcorn.

For me, there's real and not real, and as a general rule, never the twain shall meet.

[Amon1973 1,421]

4 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

If this is a meant as a joke, it isn't really funny. We had to see real life footage of an airliner tragically going down recently and this is just vulgar.

If this is meant seriously, MSFS certainly is not the right software for you.

 

With my job we fairly often get to see the aftermath of Critical part failures, and it's not pretty, however it certainly hits home of the serious nature and purpose of my role at work, in this extent these seminars see out their purpose of concentrating minds on the task at hand. 

[Mengy 814]

I see both sides of the argument.

I know we don't have realistic crash physics because the plane manufacturers won't allow it, and I understand why too.

I also agree with many in the community when they say it isn't a good idea because of the negative publicity it would create by allowing virtual planes to be destroyed in crazy ways.

However, all of that said, I will freely admit that realistic crash physics is a feature I've longed for in MS Flight Sim for many versions now.  I'd personally love to see it because I'd love to have some actual physical feedback when I do something wrong in the sim.  Like when I come in too low over treetops to a short bush strip and clip a wing.  Or when I land too hard and crush a landing strut.  Or when I accidentally over-speed and rip the wings off.  I'd like to see some visual decisive feedback when I mess up.

But, like I said, I know why we don't have it and never will too.  Though, when I fly a Cessna in Grand Theft Auto and I convincingly crash the plane into a parked car to see a spectacular crash spectacle unfold, I admit it sure is satisfying.