AI behaviour

[Jazz 1,046]

24 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I don't think that the old FS9 "AFCAD" even exists in that form anymore. But yes, that is what it is about.

I try to stay away from "why" questions, you would have to ask a scenery developer. Most likely it is just too much effort. Check the example above, that is the taxi layout of a payware scenery overlaid over the real airport. And it is only part of the truth anyway, the vehicles that follow the waypoint lists must be created to equal sophistication. And some things just don't work. Most AI taildraggers for example can't taxi worth a word not allowed. 

Consider for example a T-crossing: there are those that have a gentle curve onto the next taxiway, and there are others that are actual 90 degree turns. How would an advanced "taxi round a bend" algorithm differentiate between the need to run a smooth curve and the hard 90 degree turn if the developer of the taxiway layout doesn't include that information? And what should it do when the aircraft developer made it so that this aircraft can't even do 90 degree turns?

The point is, this is not a problem that a new sim can resolve just like that and on its own. If the platform shall work as openly as it did in the past, at least three things must come together: the scenery layout, the vehicle configuration and the movement logic. 

Best regards 

Thanks for the response and too much effort was the response I feared. If it is often as simple as placing points on the taxiways in a logical fashion and that is the only reason why this isn't done that is almost inexcusable. Certainly for payware airports but as you said, a scenery developer may be a better person to ask.

I can't help but wonder if there isn't a way to fundamentally change the way this is done to get consistent and correct taxi behaviour because it cannot remain the same. For now, I remain optimistic that this is something that has been looked at and addressed in this iteration of flight sim. It really will look strange if we have a world this convincing that has aircraft pulling one frame 90 degree snaps to the left and right. If I was developing it, I wouldn't have it because to me it would be a dollop of dog do on my masterpiece....😀

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

32 minutes ago, Jazz said:

if there isn't a way to fundamentally change the way this is done to get consistent and correct taxi behaviour because it cannot remain the same

A few months ago I implemented my own AI taxi logic in one of my apps. Interestingly, when the aircraft are sent along a waypoint list programmatically, instead of using the simulators own "ATC-logic", they behave better. At least I think that they do - and only when using the highest quality models (AIG). So there is hope, even when nothing major is changed in the first installment of MSFS. 

Besides, with the real world traffic in play, Asobo have a host of other problems that need to be worked out...

Best regards

[Christopher Low 5,352]

One other major annoyance with the current AI system is the stop/start "logic" of AI planes taxiing behind me. That one drives me nuts

Edited February 10, 2020 by Christopher Low

[pracines 823]

3 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Besides, with the real world traffic in play, Asobo have a host of other problems that need to be worked out...

+1

[HiFlyer 9,358]

I kind of assumed that in the age of streaming games, that Microsoft/Asobo would have it well within their capability to offload some of this activity to their servers? (especially with live traffic)

In fact, after hearing about azure, it seemed almost a no brainer that overly complex calculations might be handed off, or sent out to the users computer on a just-in-time basis.....?

Also, I always believed that some of the slowdowns came because in our older sims almost everything was running on the cpu. If MSFS is using more of the power of the gpu, is it possible this frees up resources for the Cpu to more easily do this sort of thing with less strain?

Edited February 10, 2020 by HiFlyer

[n4gix 4,947]

5 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

AFCAD never existed.  That was the name of a program created to modify airfield layouts, many people then ran with the name and decided it should be applied to layouts in general. 

Absolutely correct! However, calling them "AFF" files was thought to sound awkward and silly...

...and the full name of "Airport Facility Files" too much of a mouthful.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I just call them ADE files after Airport Design Editor.

[Doug47 574]

I wonder 

On 2/10/2020 at 8:07 AM, Christopher Low said:

One other major annoyance with the current AI system is the stop/start "logic" of AI planes taxiing behind me. That one drives me nuts

Yes it’s going to be interesting how they manage the live traffic on the ground correctly. And also If GA is implemented. 

[BIGSKY 316]

There is already a painted line on all Bing satellite imagery,they are called center line taxi way lines,make the AI follow those lines like a pilot would.

[FishermanIvan 110]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:14 PM, Doug47 said:

I wonder 

Yes it’s going to be interesting how they manage the live traffic on the ground correctly. And also If GA is implemented. 

GA is implemented.   I’m not in the alpha, but a friend is, and he followed our PC-12 that we were flying in real life on the sim, from Toronto to Quebec.  The PC-12 was modelled in game, flew our route, our altitude, and with our weather.  
 

It seems like it’s really well implemented. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by FishermanIvan

[eslader 1,782]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:34 PM, BIGSKY said:

There is already a painted line on all Bing satellite imagery,they are called center line taxi way lines,make the AI follow those lines like a pilot would.

You'll still need waypoints. Check out this airport:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Double+Eagle+II+Airport+KAEG/@35.1548069,-106.7951192,148m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sairport!3m4!1s0x87226c1473af3e39:0xdb7fcf9d7b059671!8m2!3d35.146734!4d-106.7990505

 

If the AI is just following painted lines, it would have no idea how to get to the 3 parking stands that aren't connected to the taxiway line.

 

 

[Doug47 574]

On 2/18/2020 at 10:44 AM, eslader said:

You'll still need waypoints. Check out this airport:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Double+Eagle+II+Airport+KAEG/@35.1548069,-106.7951192,148m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sairport!3m4!1s0x87226c1473af3e39:0xdb7fcf9d7b059671!8m2!3d35.146734!4d-106.7990505

 

If the AI is just following painted lines, it would have no idea how to get to the 3 parking stands that aren't connected to the taxiway line.

 

 

If it’s ‘live’ traffic, it probably won’t matter as it will find it’s own way correctly based on the real live traffic. 

[GlideBy 324]

22 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

If it’s ‘live’ traffic, it probably won’t matter as it will find it’s own way correctly based on the real live traffic. 

Flightradar24 for my area the planes jumps around.  It only shows smooth flying if the planes fly in a straight line.  Maybe this is because I am a free member though.

 

[Dave_YVR 972]

A couple things to keep in mind is coverage, there are still many areas without coverage to the ground and also that much of the of the GA traffic won't be tracked.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Dave_YVR

[eslader 1,782]

49 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

Maybe this is because I am a free member though.

 

I paid for the previous app (I will absolutely not be paying for a subscription to the new app because they artificially sun-set the old app to boost revenue) and almost never got completely smooth tracks anywhere. Planes would fly along, then skip backwards a couple of miles. Over and over. Sometimes a jet would go over my house, and 2 minutes later FR still had it twitching back and forth above my roof.

I've also noticed that with all of the ADS-B-to-internet sites, ground traffic isn't accurate. I was tracking my wife's flight, and according to the display, she pushed back from the gate and then sat there spinning in 360 degree circles for 15 minutes. In reality they had a mechanical problem and were sitting there running the checklist, but they certainly weren't spinning while doing it.

The live traffic sounds cool and I suspect it'll work better than FR does/did, but there's no way it's gonna accurately capture traffic movement on the ground.