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Claviateur

Hint of "in-game" editing tools

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11 minutes ago, mpozzi said:

Developers will typically publish their enriched sceneries in the marketplace and it is the user that decides which one to buy from.

Mods can stay local but only for you, in order to share or "update" the world will go typically to the cloud under approval.

I think you are over-thinking things :)

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Rhett

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Just now, mpozzi said:

cloud = "sent server side or part of the core game. "

Cloud = Server.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?

Also, Marketplace has been confirmed, you are right.  But that doesn't mean that if you buy or get the mod that it won't be stored locally, like every other game

I would be very upset if I bought a mod, and everytime I flew it had to redownload it.  That is wasting both mine and Microsoft's bandwidth.

What is your reasoning for mods to be redownloaded each time anyone flies with that mod?

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10 minutes ago, mpozzi said:

well it seems that I am some sort of delusion to you, if you look in the Microsoft job board you will see that they are looking for a producer for the flight simulator marketplace.

Fair enough. But nothing about that says Addons will be streamed.

Edited by Tuskin38

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gladby correct, sorry if I misunderstood your point there.

 


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Well I like this debate and as I mentioned in another post (dealing with the SDK vs Partners), I wish MS had a forum for addon developers to gather and talk about all this while a representative of the dev team give technical heads up... Unfortunately, unlike the Marketing strategy of listening to the users and including them in the evolution of MSFS development and initial tests, the SDK matter is treated in a way that sounds "Elitist" and "exclusive".

So Yes there might be a Marketplace, and I dream about the day when I will not have to copy from a Zip 10 folders, each to a specific destination in the sim file tree, backup a file or two before overwriting, add a line in a config, disable this and enable that... This is a primitive way of installing addons, it must be evolved for sure.

So I am more than happy to have cloud based addons (like DLCs) no matter from what company or freeware dev they come from, they are activated in a way that does not require  fiddling with all the things I mentioned above.

This being said, the nature of the addon itself must put something on your local disk somehow or if it is all cloud based, it will simply be a layer over the default data. If I decide to transform a forest into an industrial zone because this is a new area that was born 5 years ago whereas the Bing aerial material and the data derived from it is 10 years old, then my mod will be a reversible layer over the default and will have a soft exclusion. 

Now is my mod/addon deployed on a cloud and activated or rather installed locally the way we install addons now, this I do not know...

It could be that the 2 methods will be used: Local mods + Cloud based (for commercial addons?)

Now let's not forget that addons when developed (i,e: scenery) will be done locally no matter how they will be deployed to the end-user...  

Edited by Claviateur
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15 hours ago, mpozzi said:

well it seems that I am some sort of delusion to you, if you look in the Microsoft job board you will see that they are looking for a producer for the flight simulator marketplace.

"

"Marketplace Producer, Microsoft Flight Simulator"

"we are looking for an experienced Marketplace Producer to partner with our Executive Producer in the Marketplace/Store presence for the next version of Microsoft Flight Simulator."

"In this role you will be directly responsible for tracking the quality and timely execution of deliverables from our external partners"

"including setting up proper workflow and communication processes for managing the inventory/pricing/strategies/presence of our internal/external Marketplace store.

 

"

 

It does  look as lessons from the past have  not been learned regardless of how good or bad this new sim is regarding addon strategy.

Edited by arsenal82

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1 hour ago, Claviateur said:

Well I like this debate and as I mentioned in another post (dealing with the SDK vs Partners), I wish MS had a forum for addon developers to gather and talk about all this while a representative of the dev team give technical heads up...

 

They probably do, you just don't know about it. 

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50 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

They probably do, you just don't know about it. 

If they do, it is not open for everyone... Unless I am not aware of an official MSFS forum opened for everyone who developed addons for FS to join?


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1 hour ago, Claviateur said:

If they do, it is not open for everyone... Unless I am not aware of an official MSFS forum opened for everyone who developed addons for FS to join?

 

Much of the stuff MS/Asobo discuss with third party developers will be under an NDA. I would say that any of the big developers planning to develop for FS2020 will be in communication with MS/Asobo via a PRIVATE forum.  They have already said they are working with developers. There is no reason why you or any of us should be aware of that. 

Edited by martin-w

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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Much of the stuff MS/Asobo discuss with third party developers will be under an NDA. I would say that any of the big developers planning to develop for FS2020 will be in communication with MS/Asobo via a PRIVATE forum.  They have already said they are working with developers. There is no reason why you or any of us should be aware of that. 

I know that but I think you did not get my pojnt.


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6 hours ago, Claviateur said:

Unfortunately, unlike the Marketing strategy of listening to the users and including them in the evolution of MSFS development and initial tests, the SDK matter is treated in a way that sounds "Elitist" and "exclusive".

You make it sound like it is just you.  I have a ton of feedback I would like to give, and a ton of suggestions on what to add to the product.  But I don't feel listened to.  I would also like to be able to post in a forum that I knew MSFS would even read or better yet respond to.

One of the primary reasons I want in the Alpha is not so much to fly, but more so to give feedback.  To make sure it is on track and things aren't missing that would be hard to put in later.

I think most that didn't get in the Alpha feel similar feelings.

There has been absolutely nothing from the team or what they have done that has been elitist or exclusive.  It makes business sense to make sure the biggest devs get access first.  Beyond that who knows.  I have a high end computer and have not gotten into the Alpha, they must be elitist and exclusive.

I understand you haven't been contacted, which is the primary reason I created that other thread.  I understand you feel bad.  But don't let that negative cloud hang over you.

If it has been a week since you last request, write them again.  Be polite, and just ask for confirmation that you are on the list.  And include your full resume in this area.

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1 hour ago, GlideBy said:

You make it sound like it is just you.  I have a ton of feedback I would like to give, and a ton of suggestions on what to add to the product.  But I don't feel listened to.  I would also like to be able to post in a forum that I knew MSFS would even read or better yet respond to.

One of the primary reasons I want in the Alpha is not so much to fly, but more so to give feedback.  To make sure it is on track and things aren't missing that would be hard to put in later.

I think most that didn't get in the Alpha feel similar feelings.

There has been absolutely nothing from the team or what they have done that has been elitist or exclusive.  It makes business sense to make sure the biggest devs get access first.  Beyond that who knows.  I have a high end computer and have not gotten into the Alpha, they must be elitist and exclusive.

I understand you haven't been contacted, which is the primary reason I created that other thread.  I understand you feel bad.  But don't let that negative cloud hang over you.

If it has been a week since you last request, write them again.  Be polite, and just ask for confirmation that you are on the list.  And include your full resume in this area.

I don't want to go back to the points I made but sorry, if you read my previous posts about it you will see that I don't make it sound as if it's just me, I mentioned that there are many freeware developers who contributed so much more to the expansion of FS hopefully they are part of the partners circle.

So no, I don't think i am more important but if freeware dev are involved I would hope I could be to, if not, then no problem...

Also, if you read my previous posts I mentioned what you just said: I agree about the business strategy of giving early access to the commercial developers, it's of course logical and pragmatic and makes full sense... But as I said, if I was part of the decision making team, i would open a forum to the freeware dev community to make the community as users and add-ons developers included in the development process... it was just an idea, I don't request anything here. 

Also, I emailed more than a week ago and I decided not to email again so I will just wait for the final release to see if I can or can;t develop for MSFS. 

So let's consider the topic closed because it seems I get answers featuring points I already made in my previous post.

Regards


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18 hours ago, Claviateur said:

I know that but I think you did not get my pojnt.

 

I think I did...

 

Quote

I wish MS had a forum for addon developers to gather and talk about all this while a representative of the dev team give technical heads up... 

 

They probably do. Privately! And it should be private. They are dealing with information the wider community are not yet privy to.

 

Quote

the SDK matter is treated in a way that sounds "Elitist" and "exclusive".

 

Its not "elitist" its information that is still under an NDA. So not open to "everyone". And rightly so. It also isn't and shouldn't be open to "all developers". Joe Smith, who once developed something minor for the sim, is less likely to be inclined to comply with an NDA than a top developer. It's nothing to do with exclusivity or elitism. 

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19 hours ago, Claviateur said:

Also, I emailed more than a week ago and I decided not to email again so I will just wait for the final release to see if I can or can;t develop for MSFS. 

Maybe the reason you and I don't have much information re: the SDK, is because there really isn't that much formal SDK information to share.   I really think there isn't much "there" there at this point, rather than any attempt at "elitism" or "exclusivity".   We could be as many as 8-9 months away from release -- that's a long time.

I'd bet if you interviewed a major dev, and he wasn't subj to an NDA, he'd tell you that there is no "SDK", they have just shared some dev tools, and gone over dev procedures etc., but there isn't any formal documentation or high-level tools at this point.  Would I like to know these specifics?  Yes, I would.  I want to see if it's worth my time getting back into design after all these years.  My assumption is that yes, you and I will be able to develop for MSFS.  The question really is, will the tools be basic as they were with the FSX SDK (in which case I could still use them, but it would slow development time) or will they be higher-level (as in, easy in-game viewing of changes to an object, which would greatly speed ease of development, and open up development to less experienced people).

 


Rhett

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4 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Its not "elitist" its information that is still under an NDA. So not open to "everyone". And rightly so. It also isn't and shouldn't be open to "all developers". Joe Smith, who once developed something minor for the sim, is less likely to be inclined to comply with an NDA than a top developer. It's nothing to do with exclusivity or elitism. 

Good point, I kind of repeated this in my post above.  I really don't think at this early date there is much to share that is suitable for public consumption.  Maybe some command-line tools, which would leave many unimpressed and still wanting more information...

Although, I disagree that Joe Smith would be any less likely to comply with an NDA.


Rhett

i7-8700k @ 5.0 ghz, 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ, 1080Ti, 32" BenQ, 4K res

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