Do we Cancel Everything? You still Travelling??

[dave2013 1,130]

9 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

Any data you want about COVID-19 is online, google is your friend, use it!

Martin

And perhaps many Americans have indeed done this which is why so many are starting to rebel against the excessive restrictions.

The media has been displaying the infection and death numbers on TV daily since this began, but I have yet to see them break down those numbers by age, underlying health problems, or comparing them to other causes of death.  A few in the editorial and opinion media have done so, but the news media generally has not.

Dave

 

[dave2013 1,130]

31 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

What exactly is the criteria for a scientist with an "agenda", beyond being in disagreement with them?

Is there any factual data, not prone to being shot down with the simplest of google searches, that Identifies them?

I can only speak to my personal experience working in the scientific field for nearly 20 years.

Many of the scientists I worked with were constantly coming up with creative and disingenuous ways to justify their public funding so they could continue their research.  They claimed that their research was so important and vital, and made up justifications for continuing it, when I and many others who worked there knew that the research was not at all vital, important, or even helpful, to the nation.  I personally felt that the research was worth funding, but it wasn't really important or helpful to the country like they made it seem.  The money could have been used for far more important things, like infectious disease research for example.

Dave

Edited May 16, 2020 by dave2013

[dave2013 1,130]

2 hours ago, sightseer said:

but it isn't $91,500 for every man, woman, and child in America.  Its a small check to most with large sums going to 'job creators' and 'too big to fail' types that will soon be seen as "debt we must get rid of by cutting the safety net for the bottom half of the country".  It happens over and over again.  bailouts for the top followed by cuts for those at the bottom.

I again refer you to the fact that household net worth has been increasing by over 5 trillion dollars per year for the last ten years and its mostly gone to the top ten percent.  We just provided 150 million checks at $1200 each which comes to $180 billion.  The bill provided 2 trillion if I recall and 4 trillion possible from the Fed.  Where did all this money go and who will be asked to pay it back?

As always, cuts to safety net programs with the claim "we can't afford it".

When it comes to reforming the American healthcare system, we really can't afford not to.

I agree with you here.

Dave

[MartinRex007 390]

8 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Many of the scientists I worked with were constantly coming up with creative and disingenuous ways to justify their public funding

Sounds more like a management issue to me! That hardly puts the scientific community in doubt. What exactly did you do while working for these "Scientists" ?

Martin

Edited May 16, 2020 by MartinRex007

[dave2013 1,130]

5 hours ago, KevinAu said:

You’re absolutely right. There was no need for economic hari kari. All americans had to do was put a mask on -before- it started raging across this country.

It was the scientists and doctors who told us not to wear masks.

The WHO and China told us all in January that there was nothing to worry about.

Moreover, the U.S was one of the first countries to suspend flights from China, and then Europe.  And yet, we were roundly criticized by the WHO, other countries, most of the media, and some politicians.

Who should we have listened to again?

Dave

[SteveFx 258]

In January the WHO designated Covid 19 as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) which is their highest level alert.

It is defined as "an extraordinary event which is determined to constitute a public health risk to other States through the international spread of disease and to potentially require a coordinated international response", formulated when a situation arises that is "serious, sudden, unusual or unexpected", which "carries implications for public health beyond the affected state's national border" and "may require immediate international action"

 

[HiFlyer 9,359]

15 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I can only speak to my personal experience working in the scientific field for nearly 20 years.

Many of the scientists I worked with were constantly coming up with creative and disingenuous ways to justify their public funding so they could continue their research.  They claimed that their research was so important and vital, and made up justifications for continuing it, when I and many others who worked there knew that the research was not at all vital, important, or even helpful, to the nation.  I personally felt that the research was worth funding, but it wasn't really important or helpful to the country like they made it seem.  The money could have been used for far more important things, like infectious research for example.

Dave

Fair enough, as an anecdotal explanation, but I'm not quite sure how one then connects the dots from individuals acting selfishly to receive grants, to not trusting the vast preponderance of worldwide peer reviewed science on a subject like Covid.....

Or to a blanket skepticism, with (apparently-correct me if wrong) no other verifiable/reputable data to back it, of the vast preponderance of worldwide peer reviewed consensus-study on the matter.

As an interested hooman, I think this is why, on almost any poll taken so far, the trust goes overwhelmingly to Dr Fauci, rather than those around him who actually do have fairly easily identifiable/verifiable and even boldly stated agendas.

Edited May 16, 2020 by HiFlyer

[dave2013 1,130]

8 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

Sounds more like a management issue to me! That hardly puts the scientific community in doubt. What exactly did you do while working for these "Scientists" ?

Martin

The managers and directors were all scientists.

And yes, for me it puts the entire scientific community in doubt because if the dishonesty was present where I worked, then I can reasonably presume that it is present in many other scientific institutions, especially the publicly funded ones.

I prefer not to disclose where I worked as I don't wish to disparage the institution and the many good people that work there.

Dave

[MartinRex007 390]

3 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I prefer not to disclose where I worked

Didn't ask that, I was asking what line of work you were doing their?

Martin

Edited May 16, 2020 by MartinRex007

[dave2013 1,130]

Just now, MartinRex007 said:

Didn't ask that, I was asking what line of work you were doing their?

Martin

If I do that then many will be able to figure out what institution I'm referring to.

I was part of the scientific support group, basically assisting the scientists.

Dave

[KevinAu 441]

28 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

It was the scientists and doctors who told us not to wear masks.

The WHO and China told us all in January that there was nothing to worry about.

Moreover, the U.S was one of the first countries to suspend flights from China, and then Europe.  And yet, we were roundly criticized by the WHO, other countries, most of the media, and some politicians.

Who should we have listened to again?

Dave

And you believed that? I certainly did not. Everybody involved has had an agenda other than health and safety and doing the right thing. The chicom’s was to save face. The who’s was to keep chicom happy.

Moreover? The handling of the flights by this government only served to ensure we would get hit by the disease. As I said before, the usa should have closed all inbound flights from all countries immediately. The european flight ban only served to accelerate the disease taking spread here. The anouncement of the ban several days before served to pack all the flights, with many already infected. The slow processing of thousands of people packed in the customs halls only served to accelerate community spread. That is not how a travel ban for a virus is done.

People have to be held accountable. Too much damage has been done here to just let it go.

Edited May 16, 2020 by KevinAu

[MartinRex007 390]

13 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

And yes, for me it puts the entire scientific community in doubt because if the dishonesty was present where I worked, then I can reasonably presume that it is present in many other scientific institutions

I find it ironic you would use such a small sample size and then extrapolate to the whole scientific community, that is very unscientific. Thanks, that tells me enough!

Martin

[dave2013 1,130]

1 hour ago, MartinRex007 said:

I find it ironic you would use such a small sample size and then extrapolate to the whole scientific community, that is very unscientific. Thanks, that tells me enough!

Martin

Well, it's not science, just good old common sense, something that is sadly lacking in many people nowadays.

Dave.

 

[dave2013 1,130]

1 hour ago, KevinAu said:

And you believed that? I certainly did not. Everybody involved has had an agenda other than health and safety and doing the right thing. The chicom’s was to save face. The who’s was to keep chicom happy.

Moreover? The handling of the flights by this government only served to ensure we would get hit by the disease. As I said before, the usa should have closed all inbound flights from all countries immediately. The european flight ban only served to accelerate the disease taking spread here. The anouncement of the ban several days before served to pack all the flights, with many already infected. The slow processing of thousands of people packed in the customs halls only served to accelerate community spread. That is not how a travel ban for a virus is done.

People have to be held accountable. Too much damage has been done here to just let it go.

Agreed.

Dave

[MartinRex007 390]

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

just good old common sense

Credulous would be more descriptive.

Cheers

Martin