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The Atlantic has another very interesting article posted titled:

America’s Patchwork Pandemic Is Fraying Even Further

This article is well worth the time to read as it explains how this novel virus is presenting itself in a "patchwork" fashion in so far as each state is experiencing it in distinctly different ways...

Quote

There was supposed to be a peak. But the stark turning point, when the number of daily COVID-19 cases in the U.S. finally crested and began descending sharply, never happened. Instead, America spent much of April on a disquieting plateau, with every day bringing about 30,000 new cases and about 2,000 new deaths. The graphs were more mesa than Matterhorn—flat-topped, not sharp-peaked. Only this month has the slope started gently heading downward.

This pattern exists because different states have experienced the coronavirus pandemic in very different ways. In the most severely pummeled places, like New York and New Jersey, COVID-19 is waning. In Texas and North Carolina, it is still taking off. In Oregon and South Carolina, it is holding steady. These trends average into a national plateau, but each state’s pattern is distinct. Currently, Hawaii’s looks like a child’s drawing of a mountain. Minnesota’s looks like the tip of a hockey stick. Maine’s looks like a (two-humped) camel. The U.S. is dealing with a patchwork pandemic.

 

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Fr. Bill    

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17 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Meanwhile in America: https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/4F1BD0DC-9A25-11EA-8E0F-D464E6377B06

Edit: Which reminds me; I want a costco membership.

The best comment was this, which I've used several times over the past few weeks:

Quote

Many stores had a no shirt, no shoes, no service policy that they strictly enforced and this was still a free country. 
Adding a no face mask no service policy during a pandemic is not unreasonable.

 

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Fr. Bill    

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Speaking and the risk of SARS-CoV-2 spread.

Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of oral fluid droplets per second. In a closed, stagnant air environment, they disappear from the window of view with time constants in the range of 8 to 14 min, which corresponds to droplet nuclei of ca. 4 μm diameter, or 12- to 21-μm droplets prior to dehydration. These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/05/12/2006874117

Martin

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2 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments.

Like dinner conversation in a restaurant.......

Good luck, eatery owners that want to open now, you won't be seeing me for quite a while!!


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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36 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of oral fluid droplets per second. In a closed, stagnant air environment, they disappear from the window of view with time constants in the range of 8 to 14 min, which corresponds to droplet nuclei of ca. 4 μm diameter, or 12- to 21-μm droplets prior to dehydration. These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments.

So when my doctor or the nurse or the medical tech removes his mask to talk to me and I remove mine to talk to him isn't that an increased risk for both of us?

And if 6ft isn't absolute can it be 7 feet or 8 feet?  And where does that put restaurants when they put tables 6 feet apart.?  And if they increase the distance to say 8 or 10 feet  and every third booth open then how few tables can they maintain to be profitable?

Is 6ft normal conversation?  How about shouting or laughing?

Noel


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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2 minutes ago, birdguy said:

So when my doctor or the nurse or the medical tech removes his mask to talk to me and I remove mine to talk to him isn't that an increased risk for both of us?

And if 6ft isn't absolute can it be 7 feet or 8 feet?  And where does that put restaurants when they put tables 6 feet apart.?  And if they increase the distance to say 8 or 10 feet  and every third booth open then how few tables can they maintain to be profitable?

Is 6ft normal conversation?  How about shouting or laughing?

Noel

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/study-coronavirus-air-eyes-chinese-restaurant/story?id=70443864


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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11 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

How about shouting or laughing?

A COVID-19 superspreader unknowingly infected 52 people with the new coronavirus at a choir practice in Mount Vernon, Washington, in early March, leading to the deaths of two people.

Evidently singing also.

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-superspreader-singing.html

Martin

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Hi Folks,

Been MIA for a bit not really using the sim much - nice to see some familiar faces around here - might as well jump in the deep end.

Camus: "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

 

Here's a video that best describes my opinion on the matter:

 

Regards,
Scott


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4 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

Been MIA for a bit not really using the sim much - nice to see some familiar faces around here - might as well jump in the deep end.

Camus: "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

 

Here's a video that best describes my opinion on the matter:

 

Regards,
Scott

It was fairly subtle when his argument crossed the line.

No, the goalposts did not move from flatten the curb to stop the spread altogether. Almost any competent medical person would probably laugh at that.

The goal remains flatten the curve (and containing outbreaks) especially in states where the trend is still upwards.

Most of the ranting after that was comprised of the standard talking points already addressed repeatedly throughout this thread.


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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21 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

It was fairly subtle when his argument crossed the line.

No, the goalposts did not move from flatten the curb to stop the spread altogether. Almost any competent medical person would probably laugh at that.

The goal remains flatten the curve (and containing outbreaks) especially in states where the trend is still upwards.

Most of the ranting after that was comprised of the standard talking points already addressed repeatedly throughout this thread.

Hi,

I live and work in downtown Manhattan - arguably the hardest hit spot in the US - our hospitals are not overwhelmed - we sent the Navy Hospital Ship away - we dismantled temporary hospitals setup in convention centers and Central Park - we have all the medical equipment we need - we have all the beds we need - nobody is going without ventilators - nobody is going without care. Laugh if you will - a successfully flattened curve spreads health care needs over time and the peak of hospitalizations under the given health care capacity available - a measure we've successfully met.

Regards,
Scott

Edited by scottb613
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3 hours ago, birdguy said:

So you are assuming there is no + or - in the 6foot rule.  It's absolute that the gunk can travel no further than 6 feet.  

However, if you can leave your masks off in a restaurant I'll go.  But one of my favorites has a salad bar.  Are they going to limit the salad bar to one or two persons at a time?  "I'll take your order now.  Here's your reservation for the salad bar."

Noel

I can assure you right now. There will be no salad bar. At all. You don’t want to touch those tongs after others have touched them. And no one wants to touch them after you have either. Six feet is a layer of swiss cheese. Better if further. More risk if closer. That is risk management.

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21 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi,

I live and work in downtown Manhattan - arguably the hardest hit spot in the US - our hospitals are not overwhelmed - we sent the Navy Hospital Ship away - we dismantled temporary hospitals setup in convention centers and Central Park - we have all the medical equipment we need - we have all the beds we need - nobody is going without ventilators - nobody is going without care. Laugh if you will - a successfully flattened curve spreads health care needs over time and the peak of hospitalizations under the given health care capacity - a measure we've successfully met.

Regards,
Scott

I still see no goalposts moved, as Ny is indeed cautiously reopening, keeping in mind areas that are still more affected than others. In the meantime, some focus has switched to testing, so that new cases and those possibly affected by them can be efficiently tracked down and isolated as necessary.

Again, I see a government performing its due diligence to protect its citizens.

Something also to remember, is that NY does not live in a vacuum. It's working hand in hand with surrounding states to coordinate its response, so that everyone can move forward together. This also seems sane and logical, especially considering the mobility of workers and residents that could quickly turn small incidents into widespread lockdowns.

Ny has flattened the curve at great cost. I can't imagine it wants to lose that progress by precipitous actions.

I also suspect that unlike other states that are blasting full speed ahead after meeting almost none of the basic federal guidelines for reopening, we will not hear of NY possibly obfuscating numbers to delay unwelcome news.

The end of Liberty?

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/amid-ongoing-covid-19-pandemic-governor-cuomo-announces-seventh-region-hits-benchmark-begin

Quote

Amid the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, Governor Cuomo announced that the Capital Region has met all seven metrics required to begin phase one of the state's regional phased reopening plan starting tomorrow, joining the Western New York, Central New York, North Country, Finger Lakes, Southern Tier and Mohawk Valley Regions. The Capital Region has now identified enough contact tracers to meet the state's guidelines, and the tracers are being trained today in preparation for Western New York entering phase one, which includes construction; manufacturing and wholesale supply chain; retail for curbside pickup and drop-off or in-store pickup; and agriculture, forestry and fishing. Business guidance for phase one of the state's reopening plan is available here. A guide to the state's "NY Forward Reopening" Plan is available here. The state's regional monitoring dashboard is available here.

 

Edited by HiFlyer
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We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
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3 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I still see no goalposts moved, as Ny is indeed cautiously reopening, keeping in mind areas that are still more affected than others. In the meantime, some focus has switched to testing, so that new cases and those possibly affected by them can be efficiently tracked down and isolated as necessary.

Again, I see a government performing its due diligence to protect its citizens.

Something also to remember, is that NY does not live in a vacuum. It's working hand in hand with surrounding states to coordinate its response, so that everyone can move forward together. This also seems sane and logical, especially considering the mobility of workers and residents that could quickly turn small incidents into widespread lockdowns.

Ny has flattened the curve at great cost. I can't imagine it wants to lose that progress by precipitous actions.

I also suspect that unlike other states that are blasting full speed ahead. we will not hear of them possibly manipulating numbers to hide rebounds.

Hi,

Yeah - LOL - New York is the epitome of a well managed virus response - for some reason we thought it wise to order nursing homes to take in infected COVID patients - propelling us to the number one hotspot in the country - causing countless unnecessary deaths and untold suffering. You have far more faith in government than I and the number manipulation accusations happens on BOTH sides.

Regards,

Scott

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1 hour ago, birdguy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

So when my doctor or the nurse or the medical tech removes his mask to talk to me and I remove mine to talk to him isn't that an increased risk for both of us?

And if 6ft isn't absolute can it be 7 feet or 8 feet?  And where does that put restaurants when they put tables 6 feet apart.?  And if they increase the distance to say 8 or 10 feet  and every third booth open then how few tables can they maintain to be profitable?

Is 6ft normal conversation?  How about shouting or laughing?

Noel

Of course it's an increased risk. If they remove their masks to talk to you I'd suggest you find a new doctor/nurse/medical tech. No responsible medical professional would do this. I'm surprised you haven't asked what happens when you/they fart.

Edited by W2DR

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16 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi,

Yeah - LOL - New York is the epitome of a well managed virus response - for some reason we thought it wise to order nursing homes to take in infected COVID patients

I'm at a loss to think of (off the top of my head) any states that did not, or are not having issues with nursing home deaths. I will simply point out that you neglected to mention that the order actually came from the health department, and that as new information became available Cuomo promptly reversed the nursing home order. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/cuomo-reverses-nursing-home-directive-to-take-covid-19-patients-requires-more-staff-testing/2410533/

And this is where I part company with the type of rant you posted. Though such things often contain nuggets of truth, they also tend to rely on distortions, omissions, and the lack of interest on the part of viewers to independently confirm any basis for their accusations.

Caveat Emptor!

Quote

 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo issued a series of new rules for nursing homes in hopes of curbing the spread of the coronavirus and protecting the health and safety of the state’s most vulnerable population.

Since the start of the pandemic, more than 5,300 New Yorkers living in nursing homes have died from the virus, that's according to a tally from the Associated Press.

Hospitals cannot release patients to nursing homes in New York unless the patient tests negative for the virus, Cuomo said Sunday. The governor's announcement is a reversal of sorts from a March order by the state's health department requiring nursing home to accept recovering patients.

Previously, the health department's order stated "[nursing homes] are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."

"We're just not going to send a person who is positive to a nursing home after hospital visit. Period. If there's any issue, the resident must be referred to the department of health which will find alternative care," Cuomo said Sunday.

 

 

Edited by HiFlyer

We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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