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What if? Just What if?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Chock said:

Actually, it's not the end of the world to have a clean install once in a while, so no big deal.

Moreover, we can expect Prepar3d5 in the foreseeable future, plus XP12 shouldn't be too far away either. These would require clean installs anway, for those who will cling to them.

And btw., I uninstalled none of my present sims. Why should I?

Kind regards, Michael

Edited by pmb
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Why would anyone delete (or cast aside) their current flight sim app when 2020 won't be released until the fall at best, or even later, given the current little critter that's now plaguing the world?   And isn't it a might pessimistic to assume that the new MSFS will not be all that we think it will be?

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2 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

Why would anyone delete (or cast aside) their current flight sim app when 2020 won't be released until the fall at best, or even later, given the current little critter that's now plaguing the world?   And isn't it a might pessimistic to assume that the new MSFS will not be all that we think it will be?

1. They already have deleted their sims, there is a thread full of them

2. From what I have seen, I really have no interest in MSFS.

My situation is the opposite to yours. I'm hoping it will be great. I use a flight sim so of course I would have nothing against a new one but I'm not expecting it to be anything worthwhile to replace my old one.

To answer my own question, it will be what I expected it to be.


Mark Daniels

 

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Posted (edited)

If a person has no problems and is happy with their current choice(s) of sim then I, like Max, would be puzzled if they decided to delete the sim in anticipation of the latest new whizz-bang.

Who knows? At the end of the day, we all have differing opinions and decisions which we are still (relatively) free to make, but that shouldn't stop anyone from asking questions EDIT POLITE & CIVIL QUESTIONS like the one which started this thread.

Edited by HighBypass

Mark Robinson

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5 hours ago, Max50 said:

So you come in all high and mighty, post the above and then wonder why a post like this one comes back at you and of course it will be my fault?

It's a legitimate question I asked that you can have fun with or treat like you have.

Some people have posted reasonable responses. Then there's yours.

Secondly, what other people are doing or intend to do with their sims is why we have forums. Can't believe I have to explain this.

Perhaps my last reply seems more brisk than I thought it would, but you're talking about reasonable responses and I'm looking at your response to Ed and what is that if not outright rude?

As for your question: People who delete their sims in anticipation of the new one are just people who have lost interest to a point where the prospect of a better sim (and perhaps Alpha participation) is the last piece that makes them lose interest completely. I was basically just flying once per month only to keep current with my VA because I was just not very interested in P3D anymore and only starting to fly in VR has revived P3D (greatly) for me. No idea why there's always amusement in every thread when someone says he got rid of his sim, let alone why we need a whole new thread to discuss again if these people are mental (intentional exaggeration to make a point).

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24 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Perhaps my last reply seems more brisk than I thought it would, but you're talking about reasonable responses and I'm looking at your response to Ed and what is that if not outright rude?

It was and totally intentional. You don't think his was? He added nothing to the thread, no comment, no reasoning, two words to signify he wasn't interested so the thread should be shut in his opinion. Maybe do like I would do, just use the back button on your browser.

The thread is not discussing who got rid of their sim. I mentioned that part as an example to show the great anticipation for MSFS. The question was what might you do if it falls short of expectation?

From the first 13 screenshots on the MSFS site atm, 6 of them make me go eeek. No chance I will use a sim like that over FS9.

I don't think anyone would say the same as what I just did as they are not seeing what I am seeing. I think they will finally see these issues when they have MSFS on their system. It prompted me starting this thread. What then?

I have a sense of humor, don't misunderstand. I am also not ever annoyed by replies. I give a response in return that is fitting. In the end, everyone here is nothing more than text on my screen. If text on my screen was to annoy me, I have some issues! I'm happy to discuss anything, openly and without getting upset about it.

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18 minutes ago, Max50 said:

From the first 13 screenshots on the MSFS site atm, 6 of them make me go eeek.

Why not provide constructive comments as the devs might see your comment and make improvements?  It is Alpha and they keep saying they want to see our comments.


My brother has Coronavirus, confirmed by testing. On 3/26 he almost didn't survive the night.  He had extreme trouble breathing and was given a steroid inhaler.  He was very weak, had nausea, and other issues that aren't pleasant.  As of this update he is feeling much better, and seems he will be fine.  Stay safe out there.  (Updated 4/6)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GlideBy said:

Why not provide constructive comments as the devs might see your comment and make improvements?  It is Alpha and they keep saying they want to see our comments.

There are issues that are likely totally beyond improving as they are now part of the engine. It is what it is unless they went back and virtually started from scratch.

I'll explain and give examples of literally maybe 3% of my concerns below.

Here is why I hate using photo anything. It has flaws, always will, there is no way around it with current technology.

A photo can give you more detail at a huge cost. People want to fly over their house and recognize it. Yes, photo will allow many to do this. I couldn't care less if my house is recognizable if it means to get this detail I have to put up with a bunch of visual flaws in so many other areas. I'd rather have a uniform, lower quality representation of the world as it is in FS9. The cons faaaar outweigh the pros in MSFS.

Right now people are only seeing the pros. MS are of course deliberately trying to show MSFS in this way. It's inevevitable the more they show, the more that is going to slip through to show the flaws. People are not seeing the cons of MSFS. Let me give a couple of examples.

If I look at this screenshot below, it looks terrible to me. No way do I want to fly looking at this scenery over what I have in FS9.

Idaho.png

What is wrong with the pic? It looks like an amateur's composite of 3 to 4 different photos very badly composited together. The clouds on the left don't match the clouds on the right. They look like 2 completely different clouds taken from 2 completely different photos and composited into what we have here. The clouds to the left, the color balance and contrast is way off compared to the clouds on the right. The contrast/color balance of the clouds to the left is just completely off full stop to be honest.

Then we see the landscape. The area of trees under the aircraft wheels is where the photo is composited to the other photo. You can see it clearly with the trees. For the critical eye, you can also see the area to the left and the area to the right, the lighting does not match. 

The scene is a disaster. I could not fly in a world like this.

Here is literally a very rough, 2 minute improvement of the scene to make it more believable and much closer to how it should look. Much more editing work needs to be done as this is still way off anything realistic but hope it gives you an idea. Things in this shot are a little better balanced and believable they may be part of the same scene.

Idaho1.jpg

Then there are things like this. Yeah, wow, looks fantastic when they show you from the perfect distance.

1.jpg

I read someone wrote he will be so happy to not have to look at the stretched textures on cliffs any longer in the new MSFS. This guy will be getting a severe surprise. You will get to see more stretched textures in the new MSFS world than ever before. Let's go in closer:

2.jpg

What you see here is a complete mismatch of visuals. This is what your photo sim will give you. We have semi adequate resolution at the top, stretched textures across the cliff faces, I'm guessing those blobs below are trees and finally, the one and only sharp element in the scene, the water.

Can it get worse? Yes it can!

Put yourself in the cockpit of the aircraft to the right. Imagine if you looked out the right window at this point. What would you see? You will see likely very blurry trees. I can't be certain but they may be sharp at close range. They may also only be sharp with an incredibly fast PC. They could also be a blurry mess at speed regardless of PC power.

Are there any more bad points? Yes there are!

As you look right out your window, you are looking at a photo remember? A photo that was taken around midday by the look of the shadows. All detail has been lost in the shadow area under the cliff face. It's just a bunch of black pixels! If you were to look right in the cockpit, you'll just see black in this scene, no detail in that shadow area at all because it doesn't exist.

Hope you are getting some idea of what MSFS will look like outside of MS promotion and how it will look in actual use? Those shadow areas in real life you would see all the detail of what is there with the eye. In FS9 in such an area I will still see complete detail as well.

Just a couple of examples I have provided. Hope people see some of my concerns and why I really don't like just the visual side of MSFS. There is far more I don't like about MSFS, much more than just visual elements. I'm really not expecting to buy it or to see anything after release to sway me into buying it.

Edited by Skywatcher
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Mark Daniels

 

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13 hours ago, Max50 said:

What if you don't like FS2020? Then what?

Some of you have already wiped all your other sims.

 

Actually the more info I see about FS2020 the less likely it seem that we will not like it. I mean the scenery is comparable with ORBX and they announce all kind of new features. My only concern is that it might require a computer I don't have and a new video card not being sufficient (now I have 4770K @4.5 GHz 16 Gb RAM GTX970 4Gb videocard)

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1 minute ago, jfri said:

Actually the more info I see about FS2020 the less likely it seem that we will not like it. I mean the scenery is comparable with ORBX and they announce all kind of new features. My only concern is that it might require a computer I don't have and a new video card not being sufficient (now I have 4770K @4.5 GHz 16 Gb RAM GTX970 4Gb videocard)

I hope you saw my post above. Now here are a couple more concerns I can easily add.

Your PC almost certainly won't be enough if you expect to run high quality settings and add-ons. You need to buy a better one. To maybe improve some areas of MSFS, if it will even be possible, you will need Orbx. More money.  


Mark Daniels

 

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11 minutes ago, Max50 said:

I'll explain and give examples

Some other have mention the two cloud systems don't match and look off.  Some think it is trying to show two different weather fronts, but it still looks off to me.  I tried searching for cloud pictures in real life, but it is hard to find something similar.

I am not following the part about under the wheels.  I will say that the ground could use a green and brown grasslands plant life.

And I also noticed the stretched textures in the Grand Canyon shot.  Hard to tell with the trees.  But when I zoom in on them in the original full size shot, I think they are bushes.  And they don't seem blurry.

You may be right about missing data in the black areas.  We need to shed light on that area.  (OK, I am bad at puns)  But it also seems the shadow matches the Bing maps shadow.  So they might still be having shadow removal issues.

I hope they can fix these things.  The stretched texture could happen wherever a high slope angle occurs.  So maybe they can smooth it or run it through some AI.


My brother has Coronavirus, confirmed by testing. On 3/26 he almost didn't survive the night.  He had extreme trouble breathing and was given a steroid inhaler.  He was very weak, had nausea, and other issues that aren't pleasant.  As of this update he is feeling much better, and seems he will be fine.  Stay safe out there.  (Updated 4/6)

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

Some other have mention the two cloud systems don't match and look off.  Some think it is trying to show two different weather fronts, but it still looks off to me.  I tried searching for cloud pictures in real life, but it is hard to find something similar.

I am not following the part about under the wheels.  I will say that the ground could use a green and brown grasslands plant life.

And I also noticed the stretched textures in the Grand Canyon shot.  Hard to tell with the trees.  But when I zoom in on them in the original full size shot, I think they are bushes.  And they don't seem blurry.

You may be right about missing data in the black areas.  We need to shed light on that area.  (OK, I am bad at puns)  But it also seems the shadow matches the Bing maps shadow.  So they might still be having shadow removal issues.

I hope they can fix these things.  The stretched texture could happen wherever a high slope angle occurs.  So maybe they can smooth it or run it through some AI.

If you look at the trees around the wheels, you will see the area where the trees a little beyond the wheels (moving up or right across the mountain) connect with the other trees. Completely different color and contrast from one photo to the other.

To view something and see it accurately, you need to zoom to 100%. At 100% the bushes/trees look a mess to me. How they would look inside the cockpit at close range in flight, I would need MSFS on my machine. All the things I mentioned may result.

Regarding shadows, it simply is not possible to remove and replace them with anything accurate across the entire global surface. To fix just that shadow area in the screenshot, someone would actually have to have a photo of that area to then composite it in. These sorts of things are not possible to fix in any realistic manner. Developers like Orbx could enhance areas like this with some fakey texture work but it will be time consuming, very little area will be covered due to time and they will charge a fortune for it.

The clouds in general are absolutely without doubt blurry. They look horrendous imo and are probably the worst MSFS element for me. If for no other reason, the clouds alone will keep me from buying MSFS ignoring everything else.

Edited by Skywatcher
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Mark Daniels

 

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Posted (edited)

I'll add one more real concern. This isn't 2004 or 2006. With current events, looks like the future era will be like no other. The MSFS business model may need to be completely revamped if they have even thought this far. If this happens, will MSFS even be viable? Will that new PC, those early investments in add-ons all come crashing down on me 12 months later when MS pull the pin on MSFS?

Let's look at the link below and look at the DLC's. Expand the list and scroll down to total cost. Before Coronavirus this makes you open your eyes. In future times, it may literally make you fly off your chair and through your roof!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/Train_Simulator_2020/

Edited by Skywatcher

Mark Daniels

 

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Thank you for your explanations of your viewpoint (bad pun here too!) on MSFS.

To be fair to Train Sim 2020 however:

A lot of those DLCs are from a few years back (EMD390 released in 2012 for example) yet are compatible with the latest rendition of Train Sim. I doubt that MSFS could amass so much compatible DLC in it's first 12 months.. let alone if it flopped.

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Mark Robinson

"What's it doing now?"

Greenbrier Aero Club former member

I made the baby cry - A2A Simulations L-049 Constellation

Sky Simulations MD-11 V2.2 Pilot. The best "lite" MD-11 money can buy (well, it's not freeware!)

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Just now, HighBypass said:

Thank you for your explanations of your viewpoint (bad pun here too!) on MSFS.

To be fair to Train Sim 2020 however:

A lot of those DLCs are from a few years back (EMD390 released in 2012 for example) yet are compatible with the latest rendition of Train Sim. I doubt that MSFS could amass so much compatible DLC in it's first 12 months.. let alone if it flopped.

Thanks. Yes, I'm just trying to suggest MSFS will be expensive. How expensive people will accept for a game in one or two years time is anyone's guess. MS projected costings for MSFS add-ons may no longer apply in the future. People won't have money. People may not have jobs. High priced DLC's won't be an option for many. New PC's won't be an option for many to run the game, been posts here regarding this already.

Projections for MSFS success a month ago likely won't apply at all in a year from now. Everything will likely have to be cheaper or it won't sell. Will the game still be viable enough and get enough sales? Past MS comments, statements are totally irrelevant from this point on.

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Mark Daniels

 

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