Newbie needs some advice please

[flotmangooner 8]

Hello,

 I am just learning how to fly the PMDG 737-800 using flight plans generated by Simbrief which i then bring into Navigraph charts. In the 2 or 3 flights i have managed to fly successfully , i have linked up the STAR and/or the SID to the relevant runway approach - the aircraft then follows the route all the way from the departure runway to the arrival runway. However i have planned a flight from EGLL (09L) to EGPH (ILS 24). The route all links up ok apart from when i get to the end of the STAR i have been given in the Simbrief route (INPI1E) - Navigraph charts give me the option of 4 different approaches (ILS 06 / NDB 06 / ILS 24 / NDB 24). None of these approaches link to the last waypoint of the STAR so i am confused as to what to do. On the ILS approaches, there is an option to select 3 different transitions - EDN / TLA / FINAL but again none of these link up anywhere close to the last STAR waypoint.

Can anyone advise on where i am going wrong please ? At the moment i am not using any ATC program - as mentioned above, i have managed to fly some flights without an issue because all the SIDs and STARs have linked up ok so i am now confused with this Edinburgh arrival

 

Many thanks

Andrew

[iwebber 207]

You're not going wrong, a STAR doesn't always lead to the Initial Approach Point of an approach and a SID doesn't always start from the end of the runway.

In real life, when these gaps exist it usually means ATC will vector you. I can confirm that approaching EGPH you will get vectored on to the approach from somewhere near the end of the STAR.

How you handle that in the sim is up to you, I usually just make a best guess as to what vectors ATC would give (and base them on how well I've managed the descent so far... ahem).

Hope this helps,

Ian

[flotmangooner 8]

Thanks Ian. 

At the moment I don't use any ATC program but that is something I need to look at 

[flotmangooner 8]

Thanks for the reply. I'm now even more confused. I have my flight plan as provided by simbrief. I have started Prep3rd and gone into the flight planner and selected EGLL to EGPH. The route given by Prep3rd is completely different to the Simbrief one so how can I use the Prepar3d ATC if they aren't going to follow the route generated by Simbrief which is the plan I have showing on my Navigraph charts?

[MaDDogz 242]

It may be that simbrief  uses a newer airac or older. I think you can select the one you want to use?

how did you get the route into p3d? Did you plan it on SB then plan again in p3d?

think you can just DL your FP from SB and open it in p3d.

[iwebber 207]

Hi Andrew,

If you're going for any kind of realism then I wouldn't bother with the built in ATC, indeed, personally I've found all the ATC programs pretty unrealistic but that's just me.

Load the route SimBrief gives you into the FMC and let rip.

When you reach the end of the STAR, look at your ND and choose an appropriate heading that will connect you to the approach, job done.

[flotmangooner 8]

30 minutes ago, MaDDogz said:

It may be that simbrief  uses a newer airac or older. I think you can select the one you want to use?

how did you get the route into p3d? Did you plan it on SB then plan again in p3d?

think you can just DL your FP from SB and open it in p3d.

I think that's where I am going wrong. I wasn't loading the SB plan into the sim. I have now  loaded the SB plan into the sim and I have also entered the plan into the PMDG 737 FMC. 

But I am obviously doing something fundamentally wrong for the following reason :

1) My flight plan was to depart 09L but ATC gave me 27R to depart from which I did. However when I engaged the AP and VNAV and LNAV shortly after takeoff, the aircraft started turning towards the SID way points entered in the FMC. ATC however was giving me different instructions to those I had entered into the FMC. 

That's what I'm not understanding - what's the point of creating and entering a flight plan if the ATC are going to give you different directions? 

Also, the SID on my plan has a max initial altitude of 6000ft but ATC told me to climb to 7000 immediately after takeoff. 

I'm so confused 

 

[flotmangooner 8]

11 minutes ago, iwebber said:

Hi Andrew,

If you're going for any kind of realism then I wouldn't bother with the built in ATC, indeed, personally I've found all the ATC programs pretty unrealistic but that's just me.

Load the route SimBrief gives you into the FMC and let rip.

When you reach the end of the STAR, look at your ND and choose an appropriate heading that will connect you to the approach, job done.

Hi

I think I won't bother with the ATC because it's confusing me - as you can see from my post a couple of minutes ago 🙄

[MaDDogz 242]

Ahh, right.

well, why did you plan for runway 09? 
ATC gave you 27 because that’s the best for the wind direction.

so you need to listen to ATIS before inputting your runway, then you know what ATC is going to tell you. So that part will match.

As for ATC telling to fo fly the same as your plan, it won’t happen. It can’t read the in n outs of your flightplan, it just knows your going from point A to point B. It can’t follow SIDs either. Or STARS

There are addons  (purchase) that can though.

you can use ATC to get you off the ground, but you’ll have to work around it...once it hands you over to the next controller, you don't contact them, and just fly your plan.

You can follow the “fly runway heading, climb 7000” part, then when you get handed over, don’t contact them, then fly heading select to get you back on the magenta line. LNaV, VNaV, and away! 😎

that’s a rough explanation of the way to do it, as I’m going from memory, but others may have a better solution , others that do it more often than me (?)

Hope that help a little.

 

 

 

[flotmangooner 8]

Thanks Guys 

I managed to fly the route successfully using a SID from 27R which took me to the first of my way points. Then when my route way points finished, I went direct to the 24 approach in the absence of a STAR and successfully joined the approach. I descended correctly so overall pleased with the progress I made today. Thanks again 

[MaDDogz 242]

Are you aware of a flight planning app called LittleNavMAp?

[flotmangooner 8]

15 hours ago, MaDDogz said:

Are you aware of a flight planning app called LittleNavMAp?

Hi

Just had a quick look at the website. Seems similar to Aivlasoft EFB v2 which I have? 

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

On 4/11/2020 at 8:25 AM, flotmangooner said:

I think that's where I am going wrong. I wasn't loading the SB plan into the sim. I have now  loaded the SB plan into the sim and I have also entered the plan into the PMDG 737 FMC. 

But I am obviously doing something fundamentally wrong for the following reason :

1) My flight plan was to depart 09L but ATC gave me 27R to depart from which I did. However when I engaged the AP and VNAV and LNAV shortly after takeoff, the aircraft started turning towards the SID way points entered in the FMC. ATC however was giving me different instructions to those I had entered into the FMC. 

That's what I'm not understanding - what's the point of creating and entering a flight plan if the ATC are going to give you different directions? 

Also, the SID on my plan has a max initial altitude of 6000ft but ATC told me to climb to 7000 immediately after takeoff. 

I'm so confused 

 

ATC, even in the real-world, will assign runways based on current wind conditions. It is possible for winds to shift enough to change runways from what was originally planned. In cases like this, you would be working on an amended release from the dispatch office. Seeing as you're dispatch (unless you're flying for a VA with online dispatchers), you would just update the plan on Simbrief.

The default ATC is terrible with it's handling of complex IFR routing. In fact, it pretty much ignores all but the route path itself until the last 80 or so miles when it completely ignores the route and starts vectoring you back and forth to your destination. So don't be surprised at its handling. 

As for the differing altitude restrictions, I would comply with both. The altitude on your SID is a crossing restriction, which means you have to hold that altitude until passing it. After that you can continue to climb up to the next restriction, which for you would be the 7000 that ATC capped you at. I've taken to flying VATSIM anytime I fly just to have realistic ATC when their on, and if they're off then it's sort of like flying without any ATC activated but I still have UNICOM and other live traffic to contend with.

[ryleylarson 1]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:46 PM, flotmangooner said:

Hello,

 I am just learning how to fly the PMDG 737-800 using flight plans generated by Simbrief which i then bring into Navigraph charts. In the 2 or 3 flights i have managed to fly successfully , i have linked up the STAR and/or the SID to the relevant runway approach - the aircraft then follows the route all the way from the departure runway to the arrival runway. However i have planned a flight from EGLL (09L) to EGPH (ILS 24). The route all links up ok apart from when i get to the end of the STAR i have been given in the Simbrief route (INPI1E) - Navigraph charts give me the option of 4 different approaches (ILS 06 / NDB 06 / ILS 24 / NDB 24). None of these approaches link to the last waypoint of the STAR so i am confused as to what to do. On the ILS approaches, there is an option to select 3 different transitions - EDN / TLA / FINAL but again none of these link up anywhere close to the last STAR waypoint.

Can anyone advise on where i am going wrong please ? At the moment i am not using any ATC program - as mentioned above, i have managed to fly some flights without an issue because all the SIDs and STARs have linked up ok so i am now confused with this Edinburgh arrival

 

Many thanks

Andrew

I wouldn't bother with the built in ATC, indeed, personally I've found all the ATC programs pretty unrealistic but that's just me

[HighBypass 2,339]

On 4/11/2020 at 2:15 PM, iwebber said:

If you're going for any kind of realism then I wouldn't bother with the built in ATC, indeed, personally I've found all the ATC programs pretty unrealistic but that's just me.

Ryley, did you used to be iwebber?? LOL I found this post as you can see from the 11th April right here in this thread!  Scary coincidence!