New update from PMDG / Rob Randazzo!

[JoeFackel 760]

10 minutes ago, ErichB said:

And you can be word not allowed sure people will hold them liable if that happened.

Exactly. If they (!) provide an official "how-to" than they are resposible for mishaps that may occur. Just a sane business decision, especially there is already an new 737 product in their line where you will get an free update for V5.

Now doubt that they will come inofficial how-to's to import the old NGX into V5 as will come for other addons also.

[threexgreen 3,139]

There are some things about PMDG on which I disagree with them just like a lot of others here, but, to be honest, they can do whatever they want and still get criticized for just about anything. Why would they provide a guide for a manual copy-over of an almost 9 year old product without even testing if said product actually works in v5? Remember, what they said is that on first sight, their products seem to work fine and likely just need an updated installer, but they also emphasized that notion may change after further testing.

I don't see that as bad customer service at all. If you want to manually copy over an existing installation to try and make it work in a newer sim version, I think that's entirely up to you and not with the developer. After all, you're using the product in a way which it is not supposed to be used in the first place and might mess things up. That's what just about any business would tell you in this case and I don't see why this should be any different for a flight sim addon developer.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I didn't expect an installer for it but it wouldn't have killed them to provide some written instructions. Poor, poor customer service. I shall reply over there and let them know what I think. 😠

It's a 9 year old product...

It already has a newer version available which is much updated compared to the NGX. 

Why would a company continue to support and work on a 9 year old product when a newer and more modern one is currently available.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that's bad customer service. 

 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

43 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

I'll bet most long time simmers have already paid for it twice, so of course we can pay for it again!!

G

That would be 3 times, as the FSX NGX was the second. 🙂

[Ray Proudfoot 8,947]

38 minutes ago, ErichB said:

To be fair, if a manual port-over screws up anything else in your installation, they would not want the liability for that.  And you can be word not allowed sure people will hold them liable if that happened.  From a liability perspective, I get where they are coming from,  especially as the NGX will not generally be supported on V5

Erich, aircraft are in self-contained folders with the relevant subfolders of panel, texture and sound. I cannot imagine P3Dv5 is going to be any different in how the aircraft folders are structured to v4. There may be a couple of gauges that need copying to the \gauges folder but that should be it.

When v4 came along there wasn't a Bonanza but if you still had v3 as I did it was just a case of copying the Bonanza folder over and that was it.

Back in the old days when we downloaded aircraft from AvSim library and had to install them manually the worst that happened then was the aircraft not appearing in the list. Or it may show but there wasn't a rotating model. It just indicates something was missed in the setup.

Unless PMDG have set things in the Registry to prevent piracy providing I don't uninstall the v4 aircraft I should be okay. They just want to maximise sales of the new version and I suppose if you've had the older one for several years you don't mind paying again.

But to be asked to pay 80GBP for essentially the same aircraft with a few added bells and whistles when I paid 73GBP 15 months ago just goes against the grain.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

3 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

It's a 9 year old product...

It already has a newer version available which is much updated compared to the NGX. 

Why would a company continue to support and work on a 9 year old product when a newer and more modern one is currently available.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that's bad customer service. 

 

They should support it because it was a very expensive product - and it cost $$ in part because of the promise of future P3D updates on a changing platform.

The P3D NGX is not 9 years old, by the way. 9 years ago I was telling RSR he should make a P3D version, and he was saying there was no way that was going to happen. 🙂

9 years ago, we were paying for the FSX NGX. A few years later, we paid even more for the P3D-specific version. It is only a minor job to make an NGX installer for v5, and would a nice show of good faith for PMDG to do this for their customers.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,947]

3 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

It's a 9 year old product...

It already has a newer version available which is much updated compared to the NGX. 

Why would a company continue to support and work on a 9 year old product when a newer and more modern one is currently available.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that's bad customer service.

Not to me. It's 15 months old.

I've looked at the list of changes in the newer version and none are essential to me.

• I don't need the EFB as I use the Aivlasoft one.
• I don't need high res textures as the panel looks great on my UHD display.
• I don't need the improved flight model because I'm not a real world pilot. The existing one seems fine to this amateur.

Have I missed anything worth 80GBP?

Good customer service would have been to entice me to the new version for a reduced price. That's what many other companies do. Such as Hi-Fi Technology with Active Sky. PMDG might be having a sale but strange how it doesn't  include the 737NGXu. I wonder why.

[Tim-HH 572]

4 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

It's a 9 year old product...

No, it‘s not. The P3D version of the NGX was released in 2015 a few months after the 777 for P3D. So from a customers perspective the NGX for P3D is newer than the P3D version of the 777. 

[captain420 3,099]

With MSFS2020 on the horizon this year, I'm not sure which route I will take. I've been out of the flight simming space for a long time now. Last time I've flown was primarily in P3D4 and XP11. Now that I'm back, it seems like there are 3 new choices, MSFS2020, XP11 Vulkan and P3D5 DX12. It's great seeing that we have choices and that each of these developers for the 3 platforms are making improvements. But I cannot afford to buy and support add-ons for all these different platforms. If I was rich, it would be a no-brainer, but unfortunately I'm not. So I am going to have to do some research to figure out which platform is best for me and try to invest my time and money there. I've been eyeing MSFS2020 because that really caught my attention the most out of the 3. Seems to be the platform that offers the most noticeable improvements and features. I fly mostly heavy birds like the Boeings and Airbuses like 737, 777, 747, 787, A320, A330, etc. I do occasionally fly GA but it's not my preference. MSFS2020 seems like it includes almost everything inside the box, meaning less money that I'll have to invest in 3rd party add-ons. This is a sim I've been waiting on that looks amazing from the start without having to spend extra money to make it into the sim that we expect it to be.

So, I am probably going to hold off and wait for MSFS2020, because if PMDG planes will come out on that platform, then it's going to be a definite yes for me. I've already read that the 747 is already in the works for MSFS2020, and if that's true, then the others will follow as well.

But if MSFS2020 doesn't meet my expectations, then I will probably settle between XP11 and P3D5, depending on which one will offer me better performance and meet my overall expectations

[Ray Proudfoot 8,947]

This is taken from the FS Elite review here... https://fselite.net/reviews/pmdg-737-ngxu-base-pack-the-fselite-review/

As a stand-alone product, it costs $99.99 USD. Not the cheapest aircraft, but not the most expensive in the PMDG range either. That said, for owners of the original NGX, there is no upgrade price nor discount for loyal customers. As such, it’s a big pill to swallow for what is essentially an upgrade.

That's the point. It's the same aircraft with the same instruments as the NGX albeit with an EFB. But I run my EFB on a separate computer on a 27" 2560*1440 display which makes the 737 one a bit of a joke.

I've bought plenty of addons for flight sim over the years but in each case it was something I felt was worth it. To be asked to pay an even higher price for essentially the same aircraft with PBR effects and improved looks just feels like a rip-off. If I bought it again that's 150GBP on a single aircraft. I've never even come close to that for anything for flight sim.

[rob0203 689]

I flew the Pmdg 737 since fs9, there are a lot of differences between the NGX and the NGXu. 

I have flown the NGX for years and now have the NGXu in a home cockpit setup, it is a totally different plane with much more options etc. just to name a few important ones: the windshield rain / ice / snow effects, the cockpit windows, Pbr, and to much to name here.

Totally disagree that it is the same product!  I am sorry to say but you are missing a great product, after a few flights in the NGXu you will not want to fly the NGX anymore.

And I also don't use the EFB, use my macbook with Navigraph charts on it with paper checklists.

Edited April 13, 2020 by rob0203

[micstatic 4,319]

I can't fault PMDG for this.  It's a new version of P3D but an older version of the 737 they produced.  It's like older cars not getting support for Apple CarPlay.  

[threexgreen 3,139]

8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That's the point. It's the same aircraft with the same instruments as the NGX albeit with an EFB.

[...]

essentially the same aircraft with PBR effects and improved looks

Coincidentally, I was just typing a reply to this thread addressing precisely this, which is another example of what I said earlier, that people will criticize just about anything nowadays when it comes to PMDG.

Sure, you can criticize the price point of the NGXu, especially coming from having just bought the NGX. That's valid criticism in my opinion. But people won't stop there. They will go as far as claiming that the NGXu being new from the ground up is a lie and it's nothing more than the NGX with bells and whistles. There is no way you could possibly know unless you were part of the development team, meaning you know the code and the addon from the inside-out. Being just another customer there is nothing to proof if this criticism is valid and there isn't even anything that might suggest this view.

Personally, I have flown the NGX for 6-7 years and have a lot of hours now in the NGXu as well. I see myself in no position to make any sort of assumption, let alone claim, that the NGXu is merely the old dog disguised as a pup with a hat. And no, FSElite have no way of knowing that either just by reviewing the product and giving their rating. There is a lot more that is new to the NGXu instead of PBR and an EFB. Come on. And if one thinks it doesn't give them much more because the NGX is also a 737 then, well, it's the same aircraft type which is simulated.

Yes, prices are high and they charge full prices for people going from one sim to another instead of offering lower upgrade fees for these people. But they develop a new 737 to make use of the newest tech and the response to that is that people think they are in a position to know that they're re-selling the same thing to lie people into spending more.

I'm not directing this specifically at you, Ray. But I think it would do the community good if people stuck to criticizing things they actually can, such as price models. But inherent development work and the core of an addon is not one of those things and yet it seems more and more simmers feel that way.

[Caveney737 66]

4 minutes ago, micstatic said:

I can't fault PMDG for this.  It's a new version of P3D but an older version of the 737 they produced.  It's like older cars not getting support for Apple CarPlay.  

Maybe because it doesn't really affect you. I have a home cockpit based on the NGX and as much as I 

want to upgrade to the NGXu, I can't because my overhead panel is not compatible with it and never will

be. So now I am stuck with 4.5 and no option to upgrade, for the sake of a simple installer.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Caveney737

[JoeFackel 760]

5 minutes ago, Caveney737 said:

Maybe because it doesn't really affect you. I have a home cockpit based on the NGX and as much as I 

want to upgrade to the NGXu, I can't because my overhead panel is not compatible with it and never will

be. So now I am stuck with 4.5 and no option to upgrade, for the sake of a simple installer.

When using a Homepit ... you have never thought about ProSim?

I know, not a bargain. But WAY easier to drive a homepit with it and you also get used licences for the half price.