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Rob_Ainscough

MSFS and Xbox game pass

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The problem is the business model is going to change.

Why is that a problem for anyone?  MS indicated if you want streaming terrain data you'll need an XBOX Game Pass for PC ($9.99) otherwise you get LC.  You terminate your subscription (XBOX game pass) you don't get to keep the streamed terrain data, it's not accessible but you get to still use MSFS with LC data.  Internally to MSFS they have the "market place" in which users can buy DLC.  Why would you think Microsoft are not doing this to earn more money?

So you feel MSFS DX11 (released in 2009) + WASM + as yet unknown wrappers libraries is better than P3D V5 DX12 (released 2015) + C++ and/or .NET managed?  Maybe I'm missing something, but how could an older graphics API running thru a VM be considered as "innovation"?  Terrain streaming isn't new either, Google have been doing it long before Bing and Goolge offer their terrain and 3D building data for a fee (2+2 and I think you know where that is going).

I do understand your desire to "buy, click, fly" (who wouldn't want that) ... but whenever there is an SDK involved things go wrong, multiple products conflict, etc. etc. ... flexibility brings complexity and complexity brings issues.  WASM may protect MSFS from crashing when an add-on generates and exception/error, but it does NOT magically make the failed add-on come back to life and work correctly ... ending one's flight anyway.  I don't see that going away unless MS drop the SDK completely and just close the environment entirely so only internal development from Asobo can produce DLC.  Which is an interesting idea (sort how Apple closed their hardware environment to make it more stable), but DLC delivery will be slow, very slow in such a closed environment.

I've been using MSFS and it's SDK for some time now, it has some great stuff, some not so great stuff, and some really bad stuff ... just like all my other simulator platforms.  The only change I see in the business model is the option (not requirement) for a subscription to get streaming terrain via XBOX Game Pass.

Cheers, Rob.

Edited by Rob_Ainscough
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1 minute ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Why is that a problem for anyone?  MS indicated if you want streaming terrain data you'll need an XBOX Game Pass for PC ($9.99) otherwise you get LC.  You terminate your subscription (XBOX game pass) you don't get to keep the streamed terrain data, it's not accessible but you get to still use MSFS with LC data. 

That is absolutely not true. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Sethos said:

That is absolutely not true.

Ok, then point me the source that indicates otherwise?

My source: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator

to quote: 

Quote

Get this game, plus unlimited access to over 100 more high-quality games for one low monthly price. Not a member?

Cheers, Rob.

Edited by Rob_Ainscough

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Ok, then point me the source that indicates otherwise?

Cheers, Rob.

The July 25th update where they indicated there will be no subscriptions. And the fact that you have no evidence to the contrary, as they have said nothing of the sort. It's just some weird myth you guys are perpetuating for some reason. I'm surprised someone with their head in order would see sense in Microsoft taking a game rental subscription, then forcing it on people for a single game, just to enjoy a feature within the game? It makes no sense. Plus, it would be a PR nightmare for them to gate content away like that, through a service that has nothing to do with unlocking game features. Nothing in the argument for it makes sense logically, it's something concocted in the minds of a flight simmer who hasn't been part of the gaming industry for years, as they don't even understand what the game pass is. 

 

Quote

My source: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator

to quote: 

Get this game, plus unlimited access to over 100 more high-quality games for one low monthly price. Not a member?

Cheers, Rob.

That says literally nothing of the sort? Straight up advertises the function of the game pass; rental of the games. Where does it say "Get access to streaming of the satellite data" or has a stipulation that it's required to enjoy full functionality, or anything that even remotely comes close to what you said?

 

It's funny how this misinformation started on avsim, was debunked by an official statement by the developers and yet people are still perpetuating it to an almost worrying degree, it's almost bordering on some sort of agenda. 

Edited by Sethos
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5 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Why is that a problem for anyone?  MS indicated if you want streaming terrain data you'll need an XBOX Game Pass for PC ($9.99) otherwise you get LC.  You terminate your subscription (XBOX game pass) you don't get to keep the streamed terrain data, it's not accessible but you get to still use MSFS with LC data.  Internally to MSFS they have the "market place" in which users can buy DLC.  Why would you think Microsoft are not doing this to earn more money?

Cheers, Rob.

Rob, TBH I'm a bit surprised that your posting comments like this without any proof, Asobo/MS indeed tried to deny that anything like you have stated is planned for MSFS. Yes I know that you will defend and protect P3D/LM as much as you can, and I respect that, but coming out with untruths like you have isn't helpful behaviour from someone as influential as yourself within the Flight Simming community. In fact comments like what you have said, I would of expected from the likes of msp**ks.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, GSalden said:

Regarding MSFS we know absolutely nothing..  

Yes we do? They've released several development videos since the sim was announced going over the sims systems and mechanics.

  

7 hours ago, Samany69 said:

Oh no no no no no... Streaming? ....oh no... If it's about streaming then there is msfs... I love p3d cuz all I need is to download it once and I'm set to go... I love p3d because it's not dependant on the internet. ... No no no no .. no to streaming. Oh no....

MSFS has a full offline mode. It was covered in one of their earliest development videos.

Edited by Tuskin38
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

MS indicated if you want streaming terrain data you'll need an XBOX Game Pass for PC ($9.99)

Neither Microsoft or Asobo have said any such thing.

6 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Ok, then point me the source that indicates otherwise?

My source: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator

to quote: 

Cheers, Rob.

And where in that quote says what you said? Hint: It doesn't. You do not need Gamepass to use the imagery streaming.

Gamepass is just an optional way to get the sim and a bunch of other games without buying them all individually. You'll see the same or similar advert for Gamepass on any Xbox/PC game page if said game is also on gamepass.

For example: https://www.xbox.com/en-ca/games/ace-combat-7-skies-unknown
(Coincidentally, that game I linked also uses TrueSky like P3DV5) 

Edited by Tuskin38
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13 minutes ago, eaim said:

Rob, TBH I'm a bit surprised that your posting comments like this without any proof, Asobo/MS indeed tried to deny that anything like you have stated is planned for MSFS. 

Indeed, MS/Asobo always stated you can buy MSFS via game pass or standalone. I don't recall any mention by them that scenery / weather / traffic streaming would be bound to game pass or require anything besides just buying the main program either way.

Offline mode is for those with bad Internet connection to go on simming if there's no adequately working Internet. 

I would like to note that I bought Flyinside Flight Simulator via Steam time ago. It sports ground imagery streaming without any additional payment or subscription since more than half a year ago. I doubt many know Flyinside Flight Simulator and it's still subpar in many ways, but the fact about streaming remains.

I really find it sad that this unfounded argument against MSFS is repeated over and over in the hope to shed bad light upon it.

Kind regards, Michael

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47 minutes ago, eaim said:

Rob, TBH I'm a bit surprised that your posting comments like this without any proof, Asobo/MS indeed tried to deny that anything like you have stated is planned for MSFS. Yes I know that you will defend and protect P3D/LM as much as you can, and I respect that, but coming out with untruths like you have isn't helpful behaviour from someone as influential as yourself within the Flight Simming community. In fact comments like what you have said, I would of expected from the likes of msp**ks.

This is what I meant by some people “going out of their way” to defend P3D. Even spreading false information. For someone who has been around for a long time and has been a great contributor to these forums, I find that Rob’s behaviour is a bit strange. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, flytrumpet767 said:

This is what I meant by some people “going out of their way” to defend P3D. Even spreading false information. For someone who has been around for a long time and has been a great contributor to these forums, I find that Rob’s behaviour is a bit strange. 

we will see what is true when msfs is released.

in the end MS wants to earn money.  And azure AI,... also  produces costs every month for MS.

So I can very well imagine that in a few months there is another announcement that you have to pay per month.

But we will see.  To be honest I think we can or should stop this OT discussion.

Edited by 331BK

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8 hours ago, Sethos said:

The July 25th update where they indicated there will be no subscriptions.

There is no July 25th update?  Updates didn't start happening until August 15th.  https://www.flightsimulator.com/insider-home/  Do you have a link to your source of information that's officially from Microsoft?  How is my link not proof, is from Microsoft's own web site and is in context (MSFS)?

2 hours ago, eaim said:

I'm a bit surprised that your posting comments like this without any proof,

Huh?  I posted a link to Microsoft's own XBOX web site, how is that not proof?  https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/microsoft-flight-simulator

Cheers, Rob.

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3 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

There is no July 25th update?  Updates didn't start happening until August 15th.  https://www.flightsimulator.com/insider-home/  Do you have a link to your source of information that's officially from Microsoft?  How is my link not proof, is from Microsoft's own web site and is in context (MSFS)?

The very first result on Google when putting in Microsoft Flight Sim 25th July

https://www.flightsimulator.com/july-25th-2019-development-update/

And then a witty response to some of the concerns raised on Avsim, with one of them being "No subscription", which is clear as day. Your link is not "proof" as it literally says nothing in regards to your stipulation that you need Game Pass to access a certain part of the sim or else you'll get the lesser experience. There has been no statements, insinuations or anything even resembling a confirmation of that. That is something you or something you've read which is completely made up. 

 

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I think those who expect to get unlimited steaming of terrain, weather and traffic data for a single payment will be very disappointed once MS release their pricing pans for MSFS. That amount of data transfer isn’t cheap, even if you own your own cloud platform. Microsoft will expect fair payment for their ongoing use of data, which is fair enough.

As far as the night-lighting of P3D v5 is concerned: LM evidently haven’t invested in updating something most of us replace with 3rd part packages anyway, and I can’t say I’m bothered by this in the slightest. I can see how a new user coming to the platform would be very disappointed to find such dated visuals though. This shows once again though that LM doesn’t see itself in competition with X-Plane or MSFS, otherwise they would have surely tried to improve the scenery and night-lighting. Their real target audience is clearly no demanding such things. 

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6 minutes ago, Sethos said:

The very first result on Google when putting in Microsoft Flight Sim 25th July

https://www.flightsimulator.com/july-25th-2019-development-update/

And then a witty response to some of the concerns raised on Avsim, with one of them being "No subscription", which is clear as day. Your link is not "proof" as it literally says nothing in regards to your stipulation that you need Game Pass to access a certain part of the sim or else you'll get the lesser experience. There has been no statements, insinuations or anything even resembling a confirmation of that. That is something you or something you've read which is completely made up. 

 

For the sake of this discussion let's say I except the MSFS side as the truth about free or no subscription for wx, AI, photo scenery. Well enough.

So you are saying we can down load it all from the cloud as long as we buy MSFS product for say $39.00 and that give us the right to use all that data and updates for ever.

Now let's say I still like P3D and also own it but I would like to use the FREE MS photo scenery and one of these Byte Jockeys like Rob just uses the his skill to write a program that will make the FREE MS photo scenery from my harddrive appear in my P3D. Now I don't think that MS would be very happy about that. Guy's it just does not make sense that MS is going to give all that away free and I am not a lawyer but I am not sure that a court case would hold if all this data and wx and AI is "freely" avail on the internet.

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9 minutes ago, Sethos said:

And then a witty response to some of the concerns raised on Avsim, with one of them being "No subscription", which is clear as day.

Oh my, you really do want to believe ...

1.  That webpage is no longer officially linked on the Insider Home page so you're chasing a ghost.

2.  There was no question asked if a subscription is required or optional or if offline mode or online mode will require a game pass.  It was clearly banter and nothing official at all nor in any context to a question being asked ... here is the full context of the ghost page you linked:

Quote

“I want to pay for it in unmarked, non-sequential, low denomination bills, placed in three black plastic bin bags, left on the third floor of an abandoned multi-story car park, at midnight.” – AVSIM User

MSFS – Done. Once you make the drop, head south 3 kilometers. Locate a metal trash bin, retrieve mobile phone at bottom of bin. At 1:06AM text “no subscription”. Await further instruction.

This is called PR, generic indirection without specifics.  And again a link to a page that is no longer part of the the insider-home page.

Cheers, Rob.

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