P3Dv5 Excessive vRam usage

[cwburnett 1,809]

3 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Yeah, thanks for this, but come on, adjusting settings for one airport? Thanks, but no. There is nothing so phenomenal regarding LVFR KMIA that explains this monstrous VRAM usage, especially not if I can run EHAM from FT with TE Netherlands active and the result is 2gb less VRAM usage there... so it is rather LVFR who has to do their homework 😉

I agree with that. FB KSFOHD+ORBX Norcal is a good 1.5GB lower for me.

[chapstick 2,757]

9 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Yeah, thanks for this, but come on, adjusting settings for one airport? Thanks, but no. There is nothing so phenomenal regarding LVFR KMIA that explains this monstrous VRAM usage, especially not if I can run EHAM from FT with TE Netherlands active and the result is 2gb less VRAM usage there... so it is rather LVFR who has to do their homework 😉

I suspect PBR at MIA has something to do with it. 

[cannow 61]

after several days testing    8gig Vram = 1024 textures on 1080p monitor , 11gig card for VR or 4K still 1024 textures . Higher Vram for 4096 VR or 4k .

That's as it stands I hope I am wrong as I have nice new rtx 2080 with 8gig and prime use case is VR . I have been talking with Beau and as others say there is some hope of fixes . I am just not sure V5 will work for me .

[SolRayz 392]

5 hours ago, Noel said:

What's astonishing to me is that there are still people who haven't had totally smooth performance in v3.4 forward.  Have you never enjoyed stutter-free, fluid video performance in v4.x?  I do, and also did w/ v3.4 on a 3930K/GTX Titan 6gb for 4 straight years, and now w/ the new build it's just a bunch more eye candy but the identical fluid video performance.  Thus far v5 appears to offer little to nothing over a properly tuned and fully enhanced v4.5.  It appears for many/most people they will be hamstrung one way or another:  either find a 16gb+ VRAM GPU for $1200+, or dial back sliders below v4.5 levels of scenery and lighting lest you run out of VRAM, so what the heck is the benefit of that if you already have stellar performance in v4.5?  I can definitely appreciate porting rendering over to the GPU but it's coming at a time when high VRAM levels cost a lot of $$ to get you into the ball park for running this such that its really showing the benefits of this over v4.5.

Stutter free performance on my old rig in v4.x, sure it does happen! But stutter free performance with Orbx SoCal with FlyTampa KLAS in the NGXu in v4.x, that's a hard no.  

[Christopher Low 5,332]

8GB VRAM for 1080p resolution and 1024 textures??  I could do that with 2GB in P3Dv4 on my old PC.

[SolRayz 392]

7 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

8GB VRAM for 1080p resolution and 1024 textures??  I could do that with 2GB in P3Dv4 on my old PC.

Apples and Oranges. 

[Piohib 11]

I`ve bought v5 after all. 😉

Orbx Base, LC Europe, LC North+South America, Trees, no addon airports installed at this moment.

After flying for a few hours, testing some settings I can say that perfomance is better than I expected and I`m happy about that.

Frame rate set to 30, texture resoultion 2048x2048, 4xSSAA, Enhanced Atmospherics on.

Vram usage between 4-5gb, stable 30fps and smooth experience.

When I changed texture to 4K and AA to 2xMSAA Vram usage increased to 5.2-5.6 over London and fps dropped to 17-22.

A few CTD on switching views but not even one OOM - I`m quite surprised.

I`m curious what will happen after installing addon airports, PMDG NGXu, Active Sky etc.

 

My settings:

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Some screenshots:

@cwburnett I think I`ll like external views more than ever. 😉

 

 

[Noel 4,486]

56 minutes ago, SolRayz said:

Stutter free performance on my old rig in v4.x, sure it does happen! But stutter free performance with Orbx SoCal with FlyTampa KLAS in the NGXu in v4.x, that's a hard no.  

Sure that was the case with the prior 3930K for me w/ v3.4.  But almost always there are work arounds especially for that very scenario.  I found that in the big cities often ORBX regionals can looks worse than Global only.  If you're seeing stutter-free in that area w/ the NGXu in v5 then for sure that's very telling.

My reactions to what I read here are mainly me just thinking out loud.  Right now there is little point in upgrading to v5 for me as it's just not going to deliver w/o a major GPU upgrade which will hopefully come later this year for me.  By then we might have a good look at MSFS and decide then which way to go.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Noel

[mikeymike 357]

What if it was Vulkan? Would we see such high vram usage ? 

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

4 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

What if it was Vulkan? Would we see such high vram usage ? 

There is absolutely no reason for LM to use Vulkan. Vulkan is designed to replace OpenGL and allow developers to work across multiple platforms (Windows, iOS, Linux, etc.). As I've posted before, it is definitely possible to exceed the available VRAM with XP11. I suspect that as more 3D apps approach the VRAM limits of 8GB  graphics cards, two things will happen. Developers will get more creative at preserving available VRAM and users will buy cards with more VRAM. In the meantime just make sure that the cause of any problems is not having IQ settings way too high for your hardware.

[Dreamflight767 311]

5 hours ago, simbol said:

Doing the same thing all DX12 games do, adapt at runtime to avoid a CTD.

What people is failing to understand is under P3D 4.5 (DX11) their P3D graphic settings were already too high for their current GPU and as a result their were starving their VRAM already and the GPU had to use normal system RAM. At this stage they will experience big stutters and performance drops.

DX12 does not allows to share normal RAM with VRAM. 

If you are experiencing VRAM starvation, you are most likely using 4K with high settings and antialiasing settings under and unlimited frames under V5 or a GPU below recommend settings (too low VRAM). In other words you are pushing your system beyond its limits.

Do not use the same settings as V4 or special settings copied from Rob Ainscough (he has a Titanx with 24GB of VRAM).

LM will address the CTD for sure, but it will come with a price.. (Performance or details settings dropping dynamically until more VRAM resources are available)

So you will need eventually to tweak your settings for a smooth experience.

And DX11 will be deprecated eventually, so DX12 is the future.

Regards,

Simbol 

 

Respectively, this is what I never understood about ANY sim (or Dev. that makes sims) that experiences CTD or OOM.  What's the point of having all these high settings if they can't be used?  How about making the max settings within perimeters that are obtainable?

If someone has a higher end performance computer, they should be able to run the sim at max settings problem free, no OOMs, no CTD, no stutters, no comprise in add-ons, no performance issues, no "settings dropping dynamically".  

It's kinda like showing 100mph on a scooter speedometer when the thing can't go above 20mph.

Regardless, thank you for your efforts to help.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Dreamflight767

[Dreamflight767 311]

Ironically, I would have thought LM would have taken some lessons from MS on CTDs and OOMs.  Now I hope MS is taking some lessons from LM.

[JoeFackel 760]

12 minutes ago, Dreamflight767 said:

Respectively, this is what I never understood about ANY sim (or Dev. that makes sims) that experiences CTD or OOM.  What's the point of having all these high settings if they can't be used?  How about making the max settings within perimeters that are obtainable?

Hardware is evolving, faster CPUs, more cores, higher VRAM etc. .... then you are stuck because you can't get higher with the settings.

Is it really hurting the ego when someone can't go full right with the setting sliders?

[cwburnett 1,809]

12 minutes ago, Dreamflight767 said:

What's the point of having all these high settings if they can't be used?

I agree with the sentiment and the CTDs are troublesome, but being worked on we hope.

However, in my view the settings flexibility is nice. No two simmers are identical and so while I may want to sacrifice LOD to get amazing clouds, others may wish to have lower quality clouds but a higher LOD, or more dense autogen. Having license to customize our own experience is one of the things I like about the platform. But to have that flexibility there is the inherent risk that a user will crank up too many settings and create instability. I've certainly been known to push those limits...

[Senchai 24]

7 hours ago, simbol said:

If you are experiencing VRAM starvation, you are most likely using 4K with high settings and antialiasing settings under and unlimited frames under V5 or a GPU below recommend settings (too low VRAM). In other words you are pushing your system beyond its limits.

Sadly thats not the case. I wish it would be like that.

I have a RTX 2080 and not even medium settings all over. I run on 2.560 x 1.440 Pixel with MSAAx 4 and locked on 30 fps with 2k textures, as well as a scanlinesync/2 to bring it on half of my 60hz that the monitor does, 

Here you go

 

Yes, its only some of the sceneries i get this problem, mostly the ones already named, beeing LatinVFR newer stuff like KFLL and KMIA. BUT, and that is a big but there....this is in the dash 8 and even standard planes, without a single addon installed. Even if other airports give me 4GB usage only, what happens when GSX and PMDG comes out? Or UTLive? I bet then every halfwy modern airport with v4.5 features (PBR etc) will bring us to the max with a real plane like B747 or QW 787.

Then i can set my sliders to minimum and fly in FSX visuals. And that on a 3k Euro PC.... extra build for flightsim a year ago.

I dont see what LM could here either, its a drectX limit and the addon developers have to handle it. LM is  already trying do something right now and that is that first a popup should appear where it gives a warning that the GPU is nearly maxed, giving you the possibility to hit "retry" which lowers the settings to minimum. Sadly this doest work at all and the sim still crashes. Even if it would work, who wants to fly in minimum settings for the rest of the flight?

THe problem why the device hang appears even with this implementation is that it seems that the popup can detect the nearly crash 1 frame too late. And this is what they want to fix (comment from Beau Hollis). That the popup with the warning appears correctly and not directly throws a gpu hang. 

I love P3d through and through and would not change the sim easily but i see some real problems coming to us and developers with v5. 

 

PS: ignore the unlimited fps in that pic.... the same happens with the mentioned 30 fps lock, no difference.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Senchai