Vulkan Vs DX12

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 minutes ago, Karelpatch said:

Reason has to be your hardware/settings/sceneries. When flying in complex aircraft, over very complex scenery with hundreds of custom buildings, with a lot of AI traffic in an overcast layer, this can kill your FPS. But then you can change your settings in this kind of situation. I don’t run same settings for a photoreal scenery in Europe and for Orbx Alaska.

Then why does it also happen if I reduce all of the sliders down? My system is also no slouch. (9900ks 5ghz. 2080ti 32gb ram) and evening with sliders reduced right back, still the ground skips and stutters 

 

ps this was also with default scenery and aircraft. I literally have nothing added and never had any p3d installed on this system ever. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Ianrivaldosmith

[Ben Cap 89]

5 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Then why does it also happen if I reduce all of the sliders down? My system is also no slouch. (9900ks 5ghz. 2080ti 32gb ram) and evening with sliders reduced right back, still the ground skips and stutters 

 

ps this was also with default scenery and aircraft. I literally have nothing added and never had any p3d installed on this system ever. 

I’m having the same issue. Minimal settings with default scenery and aircraft and experiencing stutters. The framerates are very good it just stutters terribly. 

[Karelpatch 29]

9 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Then why does it also happen if I reduce all of the sliders down? My system is also no slouch. (9900ks 5ghz. 2080ti 32gb ram) and evening with sliders reduced right back, still the ground skips and stutters 

 

ps this was also with default scenery and aircraft. I literally have nothing added and never had any p3d installed on this system ever. 

Obviously something is wrong with your installation because you should have an amazing performance with this hardware on default sceneries and aircrafts. With Trackir and when I installed my 9900K and Radeon VII, on an Orbx Scenery with an A2A plane the first time was so smooth I felt my head was turning too fast!

 

Edit: I’m talking about P3D v4. If it’s on v5 then it must be a bug with this new version!

Edited April 15, 2020 by Karelpatch

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Just now, Karelpatch said:

Obviously something is wrong with your installation because you should have an amazing performance with this hardware on default sceneries and aircrafts. With Trackir and when I installed my 9900K and Radeon VII, on an Orbx Scenery with an A2A plane the first time was so smooth I felt my head was turning too fast!

Maybe I am spoiled with Vulkan in XP11. That is like butter. 

[Caveney737 66]

26 minutes ago, Karelpatch said:

Seriously, this is a good idea if you have a bad setup (I used to run at 30Hz sometimes) but it’s generally a bad experience.

As far as I am aware, virtually everyone on this forum is running at 30 FPS or less unless they have a virtually vanilla set up

or very low graphics settings with default aircraft. Please tell me your secret .

[joepoway 241]

2 hours ago, Caveney737 said:

Forget G-sync with P3, it doesn't work well. To get a smooth experience you need to get

a monitor or TV that can run at 30Hz. Then set V-sync to 'on' in the simulator and as long

as your settings allow the FPS to stay consistently above 30 you will have smooth.

You can set the FPS limiter in the sim to fixed at 31 or unlimited which ever appears

best to you. There are a lot of threads on Avsim on how to avoid stutters with P3D, but

this is the best solution most people use. X-plane with Vulkan is very smooth, I also have it

but P3D can be almost as good. I am also a real world pilot and have spent years trying to

achieve smooth so I understand what you are saying. Give it a go.

Spot on !

Joe

[Caveney737 66]

5 minutes ago, joepoway said:

Spot on !

Joe

Thanks!

[Karelpatch 29]

21 minutes ago, Caveney737 said:

As far as I am aware, virtually everyone on this forum is running at 30 FPS or less unless they have a virtually vanilla set up

or very low graphics settings with default aircraft. Please tell me your secret .

This doesn’t mean anything if you don’t give details. I am way over 30fps on photoreal sceneries with max autogen and most settings to the max. Same outside urban areas, for example Orbx Alaska, it will give me much more than 30fps at all time with excellent settings and real weather. 

[Caveney737 66]

3 minutes ago, Karelpatch said:

This doesn’t mean anything if you don’t give details. I am way over 30fps on photoreal sceneries with max autogen and most settings to the max. Same outside urban areas, for example Orbx Alaska, it will give me much more than 30fps at all time with excellent settings and real weather. 

Stutters and smoothness are generally related to the correlation between fps and monitor refresh rate. If the two are in sync it is smooth,

if they aren't you get stutters. You are correct that you do not have to run at 30 fps and it isn't a perfect experience. However, the more add-ons

you run and complex aircraft you use and settings you ramp up, the more your fps will suffer until it WILL go below the 60 fps that most monitors

need to run smooth. This doesn't indicate a bad setup as you suggested. It is a trade off. If you want that extra complexity and eye candy, you accept

that you will have to run at a lower fps and then you need to sync that frame rate to your monitor. There are a number of ways to do this and I suggested

the most widely used one. If you can run at over 60 fps then great but you still need it to be synced with your monitor and as far as I am aware G-Sync

does not play well with P3D. Stutters can be caused by other things and P3D has never been ultra smooth like X-plane with Vulkan which is what

the user I was trying to help is comparing it to. Each to his own.🙂

[Matthew James de Bohun 55]

46 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Maybe I am spoiled with Vulkan in XP11. That is like butter. 

Is it really though. Because unless much has changed then vulkan is still incompatible with the hungry addons like the ffa320.

I think this topic needs revisiting once everything in p3d and x plane is compatible. Then we'll really see what adds what!

[BerndB 349]

3 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I believe vulkan just won the day over DX12. I wonder what MSFS will use? Maybe that, Along with X-plane 12 is the revolution we are all waiting for! And not an old sim engine that seems to now have been beaten to death. 

honestly i disagree. If DX12 or Vulcan give more performance is just a matter of how the engine which use the one or the other is programmed or optimized for. It should be clear that MSFS will use DX12 or 13, 14 …. because of MS internal product and compatibility politics. Since DX was born by MS there where always many many games which where better with  OpenGL, but all MS titles where optimized for DirectX. A fool would exspect anything different. And since the first days, DirectX has has evolved very well until today. 

But give LM the chance they deserve. Have all of you, who already installed V5, really exspected that it would come without some minor bugs left? Right in the first days? Do you really think that MSFS2020 will run from the first day without any minor issues? 

In my opinion LM has deserved congratulations for their decision to continue their development and to compete with MS and Laminar. In my opinion LM has seen X-Plane not really as an 100 % competitior. Because of the leak of compatibility, a simmer who went on P3D after discontinuing of MSFS and with tons of beloved add-ons would hardly switch to X-Plane, even if there where "some" who did. But at the moment when MS decided their new approach to FS2020, a comparable competitor step onto the market and also a very powerfull one. Especially when this "new" Gamechanger promises the long awaited "paradise on earth" where "now the prophecy over decades comes true where the simmer gets an FS where everything and really everything he always whished is right build in, like realistic ATC, Real Weather, Photorealistic Graphic no matter where you look at, ground service and and and… and on top of this you´ll get rid of any stutters of course…."  …...hm....may we should think about it twice?!?

Don´t get me wrong. I do hope and cross all fingers that MSFS will be that kind of revolution and if thats the case my way will point me to them. But i also appreciate that LM at least tries to make the waiting easier for us by giving a further development of the Simulator most of us using right now. The only other option would be the discontinued story of P3D at all. The decision of LM to push the development any further on P3D will end up in an optimum situation for us simmers by chance to have at least 3 competitors on the market  where competition force them working on further evolutions of their sims for all our advantage.

I´am sure that there will be the first Hotfix from LM for V5 in very short time, which carries out the potential performance of P3D as an serious competitor or alternative to FS2020. 

[Karelpatch 29]

1 hour ago, Caveney737 said:

Stutters and smoothness are generally related to the correlation between fps and monitor refresh rate. If the two are in sync it is smooth,

if they aren't you get stutters.

I know the correlation between FPS and refresh rate but this is sometimes very subjective. When I use Joinfs I limit my frame rate to 35fps to get in sync with my colleagues and I often forget to disable it and even limited at 35fps I hardly see any « stutters » on my 60Hz 21:9, 34 inches screen. I’d be curious to see an example of those stutters with an acceptable frame rate in video if you have some links? 

[Caveney737 66]

2 minutes ago, Karelpatch said:

I know the correlation between FPS and refresh rate but this is sometimes very subjective. When I use Joinfs I limit my frame rate to 35fps to get in sync with my colleagues and I often forget to disable it and even limited at 35fps I hardly see any « stutters » on my 60Hz 21:9, 34 inches screen. I’d be curious to see an example of those stutters with an acceptable frame rate in video if you have some links? 

Sorry, I really don't want to go any further with this. I generally don't give technical advice on these forums but this user 

was complaining of stutters and no one else seemed to be taking him on so I decided to try and help. In future I will leave

it to the experts who know what they are talking about. Please disregard everything I said.

[Karelpatch 29]

15 minutes ago, Caveney737 said:

Sorry, I really don't want to go any further with this. I generally don't give technical advice on these forums but this user 

was complaining of stutters and no one else seemed to be taking him on so I decided to try and help. In future I will leave

it to the experts who know what they are talking about. Please disregard everything I said.

What you said was correct but in my opinion it should be used when you don’t have the best setup ever. OP has a beast of a computer and a great screen. I feel like he would be downgrading his experience by doing this 30Hz trick instead of finding better solutions. Again, in my humble, subjective, opinion and with my own experience...

[Caveney737 66]

2 minutes ago, Karelpatch said:

What you said was correct but in my opinion it should be used when you don’t have the best setup ever. OP has a beast of a computer and a great screen. I feel like he would be downgrading his experience by doing this 30Hz trick instead of finding better solutions. Again, in my humble, subjective, opinion and with my own experience...

Totally agree. HIs computer should give fantastic stutter free frame rates, but he was reporting it wasn't! So the only two 

solutions were to reduce settings so that his frame rates were above 100 FPS which is the native refresh rate of his screen,

or reduce the Refresh rate of his screen so that his frame rates can keep up. Maybe I should have suggested reducing it to

60 instead of 30.Ultimately, I think he was comparing P3D with X-plane + Vulkan which does feel exceptionally smooth and

not liking the results. Or maybe it was gsync that was causing 

his problems - I'm still not sure it works with P3D even though it is a great screen and should work. Or it could have been 

a million other things such as background programs, AV software, etc etc etc. I have an even more beast of a computer

and with the add-ons I use and the settings I want the 30hz trick is the only solution to keep things smooth and as I said

previously most people on this forum use it - just look back at the hundreds of threads on the topic. You were probably right

that in his case it wasn't needed but it is not a 'Bad Setup'. A lot of people would say that anything above 30 fps is a waste

anyway because the human eye can't distinguish anything over that. And  yes, I will agree that you can tell a difference but that 

is more due to Lag. I fly tubeliners so lag isn't so noticeable to me apart from in sharp turns when taxying, but people who fly

fast jets or play games will notice it a lot and want as high an FPS as possible, hence these new 100hz and above screens.

I'm sure your opinion was probably better than mine, but to be fair I didn't see you offering it until I had tried to help.