CS767 announced

[Sethos 4,266]

4 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

The ONLY reason CS knows they can get away with this pricing is because of PMDG and FSLabs. Without that pricing precedent they wouldn't stand a chance. We all support and purchase from those developers for the ridiculous prices so every other developer thinks they can charge the same regardless of immersion level.

 

We've shot ourselves in the foot. 

That's a bit of a desperate deflection. 

[Irishcurse 234]

2 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

No. 
 

I’m comparing the precedent for pricing that they set.  No addons were priced like this until P3Dv4 and PMDG/FSLabs

 

I don’t deny the addons are amazing and immersive but the pricing is still out to lunch. 
 

$100+ P3Dv4/5 addons is just par for the course nowadays. 

You realize they are selling it for 139$ after they "eventually" update it from Beta. That is the same as PMDG and FSLabs. They aren't even close

[mvanoverdijk 7]

1 minute ago, Irishcurse said:

You realize they are selling it for 139$ after they "eventually" update it from Beta. That is the same as PMDG and FSLabs. They aren't even close

Again. I am not comparing quality. 
 

I am simply suggesting without PMDG et al. setting a pricing precedent of $100+ addons we would not be having this discussion. 

 

I’m not even defending CS. Their pricing is shite and their product is substandard (for the time being, updates and a GM will be the true measure) 

 

I’m only stating my opinion for the pricing is because of other developers setting that stage. 

[Irishcurse 234]

Yeah your original post is not only defending them but calling out someone for not liking CS.BTW You are comparing. You are saying it's those 2 developers fault for charging so much. Fly The Maddog X is 80$ and the 83/88 add on is 25. Still less than the CS 767 and so much better by every standard. Developers selling their less than quality products (unfinished) at high prices has everything to do with people willing to pay for it and nothing to do with quality developers charging their prices.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Irishcurse

[Wink207 78]

19 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

No. 
 

I’m comparing the precedent for pricing that they set.  No addons were priced like this until P3Dv4 and PMDG/FSLabs

 

I don’t deny the addons are amazing and immersive but the pricing is still out to lunch. 
 

$100+ P3Dv4/5 addons is just par for the course nowadays. 

I am very happy flying FSX on high end hardware with great aircraft and scenery add ons. Why would I ever go to P3D and such expensive aircraft, not to even mention the costs expected for Flight Simulator?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Wink207

[Boomer 1,619]

Utterly laughable (and sadly delusional) to compare a quality-price equation between CS and PMDG.

[Nyxx 6,993]

26 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

Again. I am not comparing quality. 
 

I am simply suggesting without PMDG et al. setting a pricing precedent of $100+ addons we would not be having this discussion. 

 

I’m not even defending CS. Their pricing is shite and their product is substandard (for the time being, updates and a GM will be the true measure) 

 

I’m only stating my opinion for the pricing is because of other developers setting that stage. 

Rolls Royce charge £250,000 + for a car it does not mean Ford can charge £220,000 for there’s  does it.

PMDG 747v2 came with other engines and an F,

CS wants to charge you extra for all, CS are a joke. 
It’s like Ford charging extra for four seats

sorry your logic at best I’ll thought out.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Nyxx

[Wink207 78]

So here is an interesting thought. Does anyone have an idea how many customers these developers have for their offerings? How many licenses or units, however one wishes to think of it, does an aircraft developer sell for their latest aircraft? These license sales are how the developers pay their employees salaries and overhead. So imagine developer XYZ Inc sells 10,000 licenses at $80 per, that is $800,000 US. If they have 8 employees, that is $100,000 per employee for salary and overhead on an annual basis. Not a lot of money in today's world for salary and overhead. So how do these developers stay in business? Are they all part timers?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Wink207

[Wise87 1,275]

The 767 will follow the 777 and the 757 as unfinished products. A lot of the bugs in the 757 are shown in the 767 from all the streams I’ve seen by top streamers. The 767 systems are definitely not built from scratch. I still see the 757 VNAV, lights, trim, right CDU, etc bugs in the 767. 

[Sethos 4,266]

16 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

Again. I am not comparing quality. 
 

I am simply suggesting without PMDG et al. setting a pricing precedent of $100+ addons we would not be having this discussion. 

 

I’m not even defending CS. Their pricing is shite and their product is substandard (for the time being, updates and a GM will be the true measure) 

 

I’m only stating my opinion for the pricing is because of other developers setting that stage. 

I just can't wrap my head around this argument. Every market has products priced high, having a huge span in price points. That's not an excuse for a company or a developer to completely miss the mark in terms of putting a value on themselves or their product. What you're essentially saying is, CS aren't very good at basic market analysis nor do they have the first clue about their own or their product's value. 

[omarsmak30 4,061]

38 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

Again. I am not comparing quality. 
 

I am simply suggesting without PMDG et al. setting a pricing precedent of $100+ addons we would not be having this discussion. 

 

I’m not even defending CS. Their pricing is shite and their product is substandard (for the time being, updates and a GM will be the true measure) 

 

I’m only stating my opinion for the pricing is because of other developers setting that stage. 

So if a not good product price its self to these in the fine tier level product, so it means is a good product 🙄? This logic makes no sense at all! I bet CS767 will be even more expensive than PMDG777/747v2 with their nonsense expansion packs. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by omarsmak30

[Steve Dra 7,570]

2 minutes ago, mvanoverdijk said:

Hi Steve,

jetOne here from the CS Forums. Feel free to call me a shill to my face now.

 

I made a purchase decision based upon a few factors.

1. Supporting developers during this time of economic hardship.

2. Already budgeted FlightSim purchases for the month

3. I like the 767 and it delivers what I expect, a decent and usable representation of the simulation.

 

The ONLY reason CS knows they can get away with this pricing is because of PMDG and FSLabs. Without that pricing precedent they wouldn't stand a chance. We all support and purchase from those developers for the ridiculous prices so every other developer thinks they can charge the same regardless of immersion level.

 

We've shot ourselves in the foot. 

 

 

Hey Max,

You don't know how badly I want a 767 in P3D....and my heart truly sank when I heard that CS was gonna be the 1st to do it.  I have a fundamental issue with CS that never seems to go away with each new release and promise of full support and bug fixes/enhancements to the most current release.

They have an undisputed long history of pushing out new planes and literally abandoning their previous releases once the pretty new kid is on the store shelves. 

I would have respect for them if they at least flat-out admitted "Hey when the 7x7 comes out, forget about any promised fixes/enhancements to any of our previous products less any minor things we can fix that share common code with our newest, shiny toy".  At least you'd know the truth that when the next beautifully rendered exterior model comes out, don't expect updates to your 757, 777, L1011...and yes Brian...your C-130 that you've been waiting 15 years for promised fixes/updates!  (I have ya beat at 17 years for my 707)

There is a very simple business reason why they do this (abandon previous planes). 

• Bug fixes/Enhancements = $0 revenue (but obviously happier customers and a better chance at repeat customers)...
• New shiny plane = "Show me the money."

It could not be simpler...and that is exactly why they do it.  As for who to blame for their pricing methodology...I disagree with you about them trying to push their stuff at the same level as the other Devs.  At $134, I expect this:

Not this:

And for that same $134, I'm getting several model variants (747-400 pax, F, BCF, D, ERF, etc) and 3...count 'em...all 3 engine variants with their unique engine logic coded as well as the external 3d models.  Not to mention its an RTM version and not a Beta.

If CS could push out a 767 with all the variants (less the 400) at $134 with the same quality as the 747 I'm flying...then I'm all in...until them...I'll sit on the sideline and let you enjoy your purchase.  Not saying that to be snarky, but I'm truly happy you're enjoying your 767..and respect the fact you want to support our devs...I simply choose not to support this one for the fundamental reason I mentioned. (along with their attitude clearly displayed in their private forums that I've been pointing out in previous posts...I feel it won't be long until CS reads them here and bans my account....again) 

1st ban was for standing up for an old 707 flight engineer customer of theirs back in the day when their 707 was da' bomb.  He kept politely kept telling them things he knew needed fixing as, well...because he was an FE in the 707!!! Most of his suggestions surrounded systems (and if you can't trust an actual 707 FE to know 707 systems, who can you trust?).  When he finally threw up his hands in utter frustration at both their apparent lack of concern and condescending attitude at which they replied back, they decided they didn't need his kind of rebel-rousing in their forums and banned him, just like that.  I actually hopped into the conversation as an interested observer because I was fascinated at his depth of knowledge because, well...he was an FE on the 707!!!!

I guess that since...in same CS tone in my post above about people asking about making the cockpit look like a 767 vs a 757 with minor updates "999 of 1000 ppl won't notice the issues you're reporting, so please don't rain on their parade"..CS felt nobody would notice the issues he was pointing out...so easier just to ban him vs trying to explain why they didn't have a clue about what he was talking about.  I was getting irate about how disrespectful CS was talking down to him, and when I found out they just banned him...I lost it....and got banned myself.

Being stupid back in those days...I drooled at the thought of getting a C130 as I lived close to the plant in Georgia where they made them...so I bought it and of course had to be granted access back to the forums for that new, shiny plane.  Left around 2007 as I was pretty much done with CS after that.

Hey @thibodba57, you were an FE on the C130 weren't you?  You better not start spouting factual info about what you know as an actual C130 FE....I see a ban in your future if you mouth-off to the all-knowing CS man.🤣

[Boomer 1,619]

Utterly laughable (and sadly delusional) to compare a quality-price equation between CS and PMDG.

[monica6211 172]

Utterly laughable coming to these forums. So much drama here. Hey, we could start a new TV show, maybe call it General Avsim, or As the Sim World Turns. I Love It!!!

[Sethos 4,266]

3 minutes ago, monica6211 said:

Utterly laughable coming to these forums.

No one is forcing you.