CS767 announced

[Steve Dra 7,588]

10 minutes ago, monica6211 said:

Utterly laughable coming to these forums. So much drama here. Hey, we could start a new TV show, maybe call it General Avsim, or As the Sim World Turns. I Love It!!!

Utterly laughable that the only drama occurs when a Dev tries to push a Beta single model, sub-par product at the same price as fully developed aircraft with all variants and tries to justify the price due to the current worldwide pandemic.

Then add the lies, deceptions and disrespect they show their customers, and you got a drama-fest worth grabbing 2 buckets of popcorn for! 🤣

Had they pushed out an finished product with all variants (less the 400) at a price in line with the quality of their product, you see a few posts saying things like "Look, CS released a 767"...."Looks nice, I'll wait for their Christmas sale"...and that pretty much would be the end of the conversation. 😉

Edited April 28, 2020 by Steve Dra

[Wise87 1,281]

21 minutes ago, monica6211 said:

Utterly laughable coming to these forums. So much drama here. Hey, we could start a new TV show, maybe call it General Avsim, or As the Sim World Turns. I Love It!!!

Looks who’s adding to the drama.

[mvanoverdijk 7]

15 minutes ago, Steve Dra said:

Hey Max,

You don't know how badly I want a 767 in P3D....and my heart truly sank when I heard that CS was gonna be the 1st to do it.  I have a fundamental issue with CS that never seems to go away with each new release and promise of full support and bug fixes/enhancements to the most current release.

They have an undisputed long history of pushing out new planes and literally abandoning their previous releases once the pretty new kid is on the store shelves. 

I would have respect for them if they at least flat-out admitted "Hey when the 7x7 comes out, forget about any promised fixes/enhancements to any of our previous products less any minor things we can fix that share common code with our newest, shiny toy".  At least you'd know the truth that when the next beautifully rendered exterior model comes out, don't expect updates to your 757, 777, L1011...and yes Brian...your C-130 that you've been waiting 15 years for promised fixes/updates!  (I have ya beat at 17 years for my 707)

There is a very simple business reason why they do this (abandon previous planes). 

• Bug fixes/Enhancements = $0 revenue (but obviously happier customers and a better chance at repeat customers)...
• New shiny plane = "Show me the money."

It could not be simpler...and that is exactly why they do it.  As for who to blame for their pricing methodology...I disagree with you about them trying to push their stuff at the same level as the other Devs.  At $134, I expect this:

(Imaged Removed)

Not this:

(Image Removed)

And for that same $134, I'm getting several model variants (747-400 pax, F, BCF, D, ERF, etc) and 3...count 'em...all 3 engine variants with their unique engine logic coded as well as the external 3d models.  Not to mention its an RTM version and not a Beta.

If CS could push out a 767 with all the variants (less the 400) at $134 with the same quality as the 747 I'm flying...then I'm all in...until them...I'll sit on the sideline and let you enjoy your purchase.  Not saying that to be snarky, but I'm truly happy you're enjoying your 767..and respect the fact you want to support our devs...I simply choose not to support this one for the fundamental reason I mentioned. (along with their attitude clearly displayed in their private forums that I've been pointing out in previous posts...I feel it won't be long until CS reads them here and bans my account....again) 

1st ban was for standing up for an old 707 flight engineer customer of theirs back in the day when their 707 was da' bomb.  He kept politely kept telling them things he knew needed fixing as, well...because he was an FE in the 707!!! Most of his suggestions surrounded systems (and if you can't trust an actual 707 FE to know 707 systems, who can you trust?).  When he finally threw up his hands in utter frustration at both their apparent lack of concern and condescending attitude at which they replied back, they decided they didn't need his kind of rebel-rousing in their forums and banned him, just like that.  I actually hopped into the conversation as an interested observer because I was fascinated at his depth of knowledge because, well...he was an FE on the 707!!!!

I guess that since...in same CS tone in my post above about people asking about making the cockpit look like a 767 vs a 757 with minor updates "999 of 1000 ppl won't notice the issues you're reporting, so please don't rain on their parade"..CS felt nobody would notice the issues he was pointing out...so easier just to ban him vs trying to explain why they didn't have a clue about what he was talking about.  I was getting irate about how disrespectful CS was talking down to him, and when I found out they just banned him...I lost it....and got banned myself.

Being stupid back in those days...I drooled at the thought of getting a C130 as I lived close to the plant in Georgia where they made them...so I bought it and of course had to be granted access back to the forums for that new, shiny plane.  Left around 2007 as I was pretty much done with CS after that.

Hey @thibodba57, you were an FE on the C130 weren't you?  You better not start spouting factual info about what you know as an actual C130 FE....I see a ban in your future if you mouth-off to the all-knowing CS man.🤣

Hi Steve,

I would LOVE if Level-D came back and squashed the CS attempt at the 767 but that isn't going to happen, nor is PMDG going to come along and wow us with their rendition so we are 'stuck' with the CS version. 

I'm not going to pretend to be enthralled with this product like I am with the NGXu or FSL birds but I'll make do because it's the 76' and I've been desperately waiting since upgrading to P3Dv4 and losing my Level-D along with it. 

 

With all that being said it isn't that bad. The cockpit has seen obvious texture reworking since their 757 which I am enjoying and the external is (of course) amazing. The systems definitely leave something to be desired (Wind Uplink, VNAV refinements are the two biggest) but it is certainly flyable and enjoyable. 

Overall though I am disappointed with the communities approach to this product. People work incredibly hard to get these products to market and we love to criticize without trying for ourselves. The past does not always equal the future and I am happy to be proven wrong and 'waste' my money. If CS is listening, offer a demo or trial to prove some people wrong!

I do love your paints so hopefully one day we can see some from you.

 

[mvanoverdijk 7]

1 hour ago, Boomer said:

Utterly laughable (and sadly delusional) to compare a quality-price equation between CS and PMDG.

 

30 minutes ago, Boomer said:

Utterly laughable (and sadly delusional) to compare a quality-price equation between CS and PMDG.

 

OK Boomer....

 

We got you the first time FYI. 

[Boomer 1,619]

LOL...thats my phone with a mind of its own

[mvanoverdijk 7]

1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

Rolls Royce charge £250,000 + for a car it does not mean Ford can charge £220,000 for there’s  does it.

PMDG 747v2 came with other engines and an F,

CS wants to charge you extra for all, CS are a joke. 
It’s like Ford charging extra for four seats

sorry your logic at best I’ll thought out.

 

47 minutes ago, Sethos said:

I just can't wrap my head around this argument. Every market has products priced high, having a huge span in price points. That's not an excuse for a company or a developer to completely miss the mark in terms of putting a value on themselves or their product. What you're essentially saying is, CS aren't very good at basic market analysis nor do they have the first clue about their own or their product's value. 

 

The only reason CS think they can get away with $100+ is because of other developers. Whether it's worth it or not is beside the point. They will try and (most likely) succeed given the demand. They might not understand their products value but they certainly understand market analysis and supply/demand, since they are the only ones offering a 767...

 

41 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

So if a not good product price its self to these in the fine tier level product, so it means is a good product 🙄? This logic makes no sense at all! I bet CS767 will be even more expensive than PMDG777/747v2 with their nonsense expansion packs. 

 

Not at all.

They choose where to price their product, the market (us) decides if it is good or not. If you see a price drop or sales in the close future they were wrong and need more sales, if they haven't dropped the price then clearly sales are meeting expectations and the market has dictated the value. 

[thibodba57 462]

1 hour ago, Wise87 said:

The 767 will follow the 777 and the 757 as unfinished products. A lot of the bugs in the 757 are shown in the 767 from all the streams I’ve seen by top streamers. The 767 systems are definitely not built from scratch. I still see the 757 VNAV, lights, trim, right CDU, etc bugs in the 767. 

 Don't kid yourself. Captainsim has never truely finished a single product.  I dare anyone to actually find a single product they still take bug reports and correct issues.  Just ONE!  And there are GLARING issues with some of these products that should never made it out of Beta.

[thibodba57 462]

1 hour ago, Steve Dra said:

Hey @thibodba57, you were an FE on the C130 weren't you?  You better not start spouting factual info about what you know as an actual C130 FE....I see a ban in your future if you mouth-off to the all-knowing CS man.🤣

 

I think I made a post or two and was just ignored and never answered.  No sense arguing with a wall.  I just don't buy their products anymore unless its a model I want bad enough and I'll wait til its on a $10 sale.  Last one I purchased at full price was recently the L-1011.  Huge mistake on my part.  They didn't even bother to use HD external textures.  Blurry aircraft, no independent INS.  Which is disgraceful because you can get the Simufly INS for FREE and they act independently and modeled accurately.  There's even Triple Mixing and DME updates.  All free.  They should have just paid that guy a fee to integrate his Gauge in their airframes and be done with it.

CS isn't a developer I encourage anyone to purchase from because they truly don't had end support.  They might provide one or two upgrades but then they move on to the next aircraft and leave anything that will take some serious work behind.  So no you have an aircraft that only works partly and you'll spend heaps of time in the FDE trying to get something to work right or hopefully find someone else who came up with a fix for it.

[Wise87 1,281]

15 minutes ago, thibodba57 said:

 Don't kid yourself. Captainsim has never truely finished a single product.  I dare anyone to actually find a single product they still take bug reports and correct issues.  Just ONE!  And there are GLARING issues with some of these products that should never made it out of Beta.

Thats what I said, they never finish a product. The 757 and 777 being the most recent incomplete products. 

[monica6211 176]

1 hour ago, Wise87 said:

Looks who’s adding to the drama.

Yup.  And I Love it!!!

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

4 hours ago, thibodba57 said:

Someone mute @Steve Dra before he strokes out.  If he falls over dead who is going to make my paints look good?!?!  Think of me people!

 

Sidebar. I whole heartedly agree with EVERYTHING he has said.  That company is notorious for never finishing products. I'm still waiting for obvious fixes to the C-130 15 years later.

Brian, I was thinking the same thing. When he went dark on this for 3 minutes I almost called his cell to make sure he was alright! LOL!!!

[Chock 17,769]

I think it'll be interesting to see what price they eventually discount it to when the inevitable flash sale comes along after sales have dried up a bit following all the early adopters having panicked about having to pay 134 Sovs for it and therefore imagined 99 represented some kind of bargain.

Given their penchant for prices which reflect the model number, they could either go for £7.67, £76.70 or 76p. Whichever they choose, it's pretty clear this is why they've never done an Airbus A320. Even they haven't got the nerve to try and get away with charging 320 quid, whereas 32 quid is a bit on the low side, as is £3.20. 🤣

This does on the other hand mean that likely future developments will include the BAC-111 and the F-111, and the Tu-134 is a certainty it would seem.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Chock

[rmeier 473]

I was trying to stay open minded about this newest release from Captain Sim.

After seeing a few previews, I can't seem to equate their current asking price (whether $100 or $135). I've been a defender of their CS757III (which admittedly I bought on sale 1-1/2 years ago for $25).

Lately, I've been flying the FSLabs A321 and the PMDG 748. Those are two truly top shelf add-ons with some added immersion features not included with the CS767.

Tonight, I'm flying the 5 year old PMDG 777 and again trying to equate why would I spend $100 (or $135) for this newest CS aircraft? (The 5 y/o PMDG T7 has better VC graphics and very likely better flight dynamics.) OK...so the CS767 has a rainmaker not yet available in the T7. I think I'll wait for the PMDG T7 update expected in the near future.

The video I viewed earlier in this thread about the CS767 departing CYYZ reminded me of the guy many months back that merged the CS757 panel with the LDS767...not impressive.

Sorry Captain Sim...you've priced yourself out of the market on this product for this customer.

Edited April 29, 2020 by rmeier

[xender 459]

4 hours ago, mvanoverdijk said:

The ONLY reason CS knows they can get away with this pricing is because of PMDG and FSLabs. Without that pricing precedent they wouldn't stand a chance. We all support and purchase from those developers for the ridiculous prices so every other developer thinks they can charge the same regardless of immersion level.

That's a faulty argument my friend...

A Bugatti Chiron costs almost 3 million. That's a pricing precedent right there, don't you think? Honda would like to sell a Civic at those prices too! and look! There's a precedent of someone selling a production car for nearly 3 million! However, how big do you think its the market for a 3 million dollars civic?

You pay a price not based on precedent but based on what you think gives you value for what you have paid. Among equals (fslabs, pmdg, leonardo), the "precedent" argument holds water, otherwise it doesn't. CS is waaaaaaaay behind pmdg/fslabs/leonardo. They don't even care about you as a customer, they are only there for a quick profit!. So, even if someone can charge 130 for a plane it doesn't mean CS can do it too.

Well, they can but it doesn't offer any value for what you pay. The price doesn't reflect the value.

If you don't agree please let me know, i have a car to sell you.

 

[Sethos 4,335]

6 hours ago, mvanoverdijk said:

The only reason CS think they can get away with $100+ is because of other developers. Whether it's worth it or not is beside the point. They will try and (most likely) succeed given the demand. They might not understand their products value but they certainly understand market analysis and supply/demand, since they are the only ones offering a 767...

Yeah, you just repeated yourself word for word, that's not how you make a nonsensical argument make more sense. You are just trying to absolve CS of their own lack of insight by shifting blame to others. You are essentially saying because other companies widened the price gap in the market, the poor old goats at CS can't be blamed because now they got even more confused at how to price their product. Your argument just doesn't make sense. Developers could have million dollar addons and that still shouldn't have a shred of impact on pricing ones own addons according with quality, market expectations and on your own reputation. Your entire argument is a weak defence of CS. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Sethos