Heads up on new AI separation utilities for P3Dv4

[atco 161]

1 hour ago, fs1 said:

I will drop a line to request some testers to see what can be accomplished with this tool.

Sounds very interesting Federico, would be delighted to help with testing

[bluemja2002 4]

Is there a way the AI to ignore the user aircraft for AI planespotting purposes.  I see AI aircraft doing go arounds because it detects my user aircraft right besides the runway.

 

mike

[DaviiB 104]

 

5 hours ago, fs1 said:

We coded the ATC Explorer some time ago. I will be updating it to work in v5. There is a messaging system going on between the ATC and the AI, and there are ways to change the default behavior of a specific AI (change the parking index, or the landing runway, or several other instructions).

I will drop a line to request some testers to see what can be accomplished with this tool.

I'd be happy to assist any way I can as well. Let me know if there's anything you'd need.

Cheers

[netshadoe 144]

44 minutes ago, bluemja2002 said:

Is there a way the AI to ignore the user aircraft for AI planespotting purposes.  I see AI aircraft doing go arounds because it detects my user aircraft right besides the runway.

 

mike

In the ini file, change the USERAISEPARATIONDISTANCE parameter to 0

[Bryn 72]

6 hours ago, fs1 said:

We coded the ATC Explorer some time ago. I will be updating it to work in v5. There is a messaging system going on between the ATC and the AI, and there are ways to change the default behavior of a specific AI (change the parking index, or the landing runway, or several other instructions).

I will drop a line to request some testers to see what can be accomplished with this tool.

Wow I don't know how I missed this... I've been waiting a long time to see someone create a tool that might allow these types of injections. Do you have an API? I'd be keen to test it!!!

[C2615 319]

12 hours ago, Clipper Ocean Spray said:

😉Now that we have a braking scalar, maybe it would be better to think of the adjustable parameter in terms of time, such as a target landing roll time regardless of AI set being used?  Enter the target time (and also perhaps an initial scalar braking value) and the program adjusts the scalar on-the-fly to achieve the target time?    

Could it be target distance like 2/3 of the runway length?

[DaviiB 104]

11 hours ago, C2615 said:

Could it be target distance like 2/3 of the runway length?

How about an approximate landing roll distance by aircraft type/category?

Turboprop: 2500-4000ft

Regional Jet: 3500-5500ft

Medium Jet: 4000-6000ft

Large Jet: 5000-7000ft

....with a caveat that the landing roll distance can't be greater than runway remaining at touchdown, otherwise the aircraft should just roll to the end.

That would allow for some variation.

 

OR

 

How about you select the taxiways where you want aircraft to exit, then modulate the braking to hit taxi speed just before it gets there. The Airbus A350 actually has a feature like this called Brake to Vacate (BTV), where you pick your exit and the aircraft will brake accordingly.

This would really only work for runways with multiple exits/parallel taxiways. It won't solve the landing distance issue on runways where a backtrack is required.

 

Perhaps a combination of the two?

 

Cheers

Edited May 19, 2020 by DaviiB

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

On 5/18/2020 at 12:23 PM, ScottB2 said:

Hi Roland,

Thank you for creating and sharing these wonderful utilities. I have a question and a suggestion that might be useful for other users.  Using the addon.xml, is there a way to auto start AIGround/ALFlow to the tray or minimized? 

Is possible to have AIFlow read my flight plan to identify both my starting ICAO and my arriving airport to allow AIFlow to manage the traffic to my final destination more efficiently? 

-Thanks, Scott

Yes, there will absolutely be an option to start minimized next revision.  The users have spoken loud and clear on that one. 🙂

Edit: re: second request, I'm finishing up a traffic limiter that will read the flight plan and limit traffic to those airports.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Clipper Ocean Spray

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

On 5/18/2020 at 2:05 PM, atco said:

At most busy airports in the World the final approach speed used by ATC is either 160 or 170kts to 4 miles. Is there any way your program can force all aircraft to fly at 160kts to 4 before allowing them to slow to landing speed? One of the problems with many AI FDE's is that they have wildly inconsistent approach speeds. I've seen some jets at 230kts on final and other ATR's doing 85kts on final.

Secondly is there any way of implementing say via an ini file a way to override the default final approach spacing value for specific runways?

 

I think there might be a bare bones way (simple and light) to do the first thing, I'll look into it.  Re: the second, I'm adding an option to periodically read the .ini file, so if you're approaching an airport that you want to change spacing for, you can just change the value in the .ini and it will be automatically saved and applied.

The other ideas are great and a lot of them I supported in my earlier AIController.  The problem with that earlier effort was it broke compatibility with the default P3D ATC comm system plus it was a lot more complicated to setup. 

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

On 5/18/2020 at 4:40 PM, fs1 said:

We coded the ATC Explorer some time ago. I will be updating it to work in v5. There is a messaging system going on between the ATC and the AI, and there are ways to change the default behavior of a specific AI (change the parking index, or the landing runway, or several other instructions).

I will drop a line to request some testers to see what can be accomplished with this tool.

Wow, that sounds great!  My current utils follow ATC, so if you can direct ATC to change takeoff/landing runway(s) and parking, that would be huge.  Specifically, being able to change the AI landing runway(s) is one of the most frequent requests I get.  My earlier AIController did it, but it wasn't compatible with default ATC.  It would also be a huge help for the weather programs too.

[Clipper Ocean Spray 189]

On 5/19/2020 at 12:27 AM, C2615 said:

Could it be target distance like 2/3 of the runway length?

 

On 5/19/2020 at 9:47 AM, DaviiB said:

How about an approximate landing roll distance by aircraft type/category?

Turboprop: 2500-4000ft

Regional Jet: 3500-5500ft

Medium Jet: 4000-6000ft

Large Jet: 5000-7000ft

....with a caveat that the landing roll distance can't be greater than runway remaining at touchdown, otherwise the aircraft should just roll to the end.

That would allow for some variation.

 

OR

 

How about you select the taxiways where you want aircraft to exit, then modulate the braking to hit taxi speed just before it gets there. The Airbus A350 actually has a feature like this called Brake to Vacate (BTV), where you pick your exit and the aircraft will brake accordingly.

This would really only work for runways with multiple exits/parallel taxiways. It won't solve the landing distance issue on runways where a backtrack is required.

 

Perhaps a combination of the two?

 

Cheers

My next revision lets the user specify a target landing ground roll time (adjusting the braking scalar dynamically to achieve it) for an average jet.  Turbos and GA will automatically take less time and heavies perhaps a bit more.

It seems to be working fairly well, with some natural variability in the actual ground roll times.  A more-or-less constant ground-roll time mirrors reality IMO.  Regardless of runway length (excluding exceptionally short runways), the roll is always going to be about the same, sort of a constant de-accel that is comfortable for the passengers, easy on the aircraft, but getting the aircraft to exit promptly.

Davii, the other suggestions are good.  My earlier AIController did some of those things, but it had to read the airport .bgl files to do it, which I want to avoid for these utils.

 

 

[cowpatz 243]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:06 PM, bluemja2002 said:

Is there a way the AI to ignore the user aircraft for AI planespotting purposes.  I see AI aircraft doing go arounds because it detects my user aircraft right besides the runway.

 

mike

Just move further away and use the zoom.

[DaviiB 104]

2 hours ago, Clipper Ocean Spray said:

 

My next revision lets the user specify a target landing ground roll time (adjusting the braking scalar dynamically to achieve it) for an average jet.  Turbos and GA will automatically take less time and heavies perhaps a bit more.

It seems to be working fairly well, with some natural variability in the actual ground roll times.  A more-or-less constant ground-roll time mirrors reality IMO.  Regardless of runway length (excluding exceptionally short runways), the roll is always going to be about the same, sort of a constant de-accel that is comfortable for the passengers, easy on the aircraft, but getting the aircraft to exit promptly.

Davii, the other suggestions are good.  My earlier AIController did some of those things, but it had to read the airport .bgl files to do it, which I want to avoid for these utils.

 

 

Brilliant! Can't wait to test it.

 

Cheers,

DB

[C2615 319]

8 hours ago, Clipper Ocean Spray said:

 

My next revision lets the user specify a target landing ground roll time (adjusting the braking scalar dynamically to achieve it) for an average jet.  Turbos and GA will automatically take less time and heavies perhaps a bit more.

My main concern is if mid/heavy airliners are landing at short runways, that's the risk of overshot.

Like in Japan, there are a few 767 and 787 fly to airport with less than 2400m / 8000' of runway, or in US, 737 land on runway less than 2000m/6000' .

While when landing at large airport, you may select low brake setting for less wear and better comfort, when opreating at those condition, you mush unleash all your stoping force you have.

Edited May 21, 2020 by C2615

[F737MAX 5,531]

Using AIGround at EGLC is 'interesting'.
When using AILANDINGBRAKINGSCALAR above the suggested defaults, none of the jets stop before the end of the runway 🏊‍♂️

While I prefer the simplicity of these two apps over AIController, it would be good to have the ability to limit landing rollouts on (specific) short runways.

I suppose it's the typical problem with flight simming though. Developer creates a simple product, users demand more features, it becomes clunky, users hit out at complexity. Rinse and repeat.

Nevertheless, many thanks for these apps Roland!