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Ray Proudfoot

Concorde announced by Aeroplane Heaven

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3 minutes ago, Paul K said:

My experience with Aeroplane.Heaven is such that with any of their models, I recommend you await the views and reviews of the flight sim community. Personally, after the C-46 Commando,I doubt I'll buy anything more from them, but I keep an open mind. As I say, don't buy on the first day - gather information over the following few months, and see what the overall impression is.

Thanks Paul. As you will see from later posts theirs will not be a reference level aircraft. Unless the fuel system, INS and AFCS are accurately modelled I can’t see myself buying into it.

I’m sure that with simpler aircraft their versions are fine. But Concorde is one aircraft you can’t cut corners with.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Ray, understood on Concorde, but even with their simpler aircraft, circumspection and consultation are your friends. 😉

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23 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Paul. As you will see from later posts theirs will not be a reference level aircraft. Unless the fuel system, INS and AFCS are accurately modelled I can’t see myself buying into it.

I’m sure that with simpler aircraft their versions are fine. But Concorde is one aircraft you can’t cut corners with.

That last sentence sums up real life too..................need I name names.......................................?!

Edited by trumpetfrazz1
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Ray :

Some time ago You developed very accurate .air and fuelburn files for FSL Concorde X. I'm working on improvements of opensource Flightgear Concorde and that files would be very helpfull. I'm not verified customer and can't download it from FSL. Can You share that files on other place, please?

Thank You in advance.

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3 hours ago, BAWV12 said:

Ray :

Some time ago You developed very accurate .air and fuelburn files for FSL Concorde X. I'm working on improvements of opensource Flightgear Concorde and that files would be very helpfull. I'm not verified customer and can't download it from FSL. Can You share that files on other place, please?

Thank You in advance.

I'm sure Ray will get back to you soon but I don't think it was him that developed those...

I have a feeling that you won't get the files to work directly with such an addon and unless you have the "raw data" from the Concorde manuals, the files won't be of much use to you.  Plus, there is a good reason you can't download from the FSLabs site without being registered...

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4 hours ago, BAWV12 said:

Ray :

Some time ago You developed very accurate .air and fuelburn files for FSL Concorde X. I'm working on improvements of opensource Flightgear Concorde and that files would be very helpfull. I'm not verified customer and can't download it from FSL. Can You share that files on other place, please?

Thank You in advance.

As Frazz has explained they weren't my files. They were developed purely for the FSL model. The chap who created them has already commented in this topic. His tag is @Afterburner.

Good luck with your project. 👍


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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38 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

As Frazz has explained they weren't my files. They were developed purely for the FSL model. The chap who created them has already commented in this topic. His tag is @Afterburner.

Good luck with your project. 👍

There is an interesting copyright debate to be had here - Afterburner altered the FSLabs files for use with their product which is fine, but by passing them on even although he made changes to the files, I think would be in breach of copyright...

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Ray :

Thx.

trumpetfrazz1 :

No, it is not. Flightgear uses absolutly different engine system, You can't direct use FSX/P3D .air and fuel burn files. But You can build other engine files based on thrust and fuel consumption curves. You will breach copyright only in case of use original .air and .ini files with other FSX/P3D project.

Edited by BAWV12

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21 minutes ago, trumpetfrazz1 said:

There is an interesting copyright debate to be had here - Afterburner altered the FSLabs files for use with their product which is fine, but by passing them on even although he made changes to the files, I think would be in breach of copyright...

From memory the package was an .AIR file and two .INI files. Clearly the air file can’t be used and I suspect the ini files would be of limited use elsewhere. But if @Afterburner had access to the non-copyright data used to build those files it is that which would be helpful to BAWV12.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, BAWV12 said:

Ray :

Thx.

trumpetfrazz1 :

No, it is not. Flightgear uses absolutly different engine system, You can't direct use FSX/P3D .air and fuel burn files. But You can build other engine files based on thrust and fuel consumption curves. You will breach copyright only in case of use original .air and .ini files with other FSX/P3D project.

Yes, but someone has done all the work to create those files from raw data, which is available if you look hard enough.  I had to make all the fuel consumption tables for my PFPX profile from the Concorde Cruise Control manual, I wouldn't have dreamt of copying from the files in the simulator.  

As a musician who deals with copyright a lot, copying the original source in any form is subject to legal restriction.  

If if legally ok, morally wrong in my personal opinion.  If it was for Concorde X, the original addon, with permission from FSLabs then fine. 

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18 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’m sure that with simpler aircraft their versions are fine. But Concorde is one aircraft you can’t cut corners with.

The One-Eleven developed by Aeroplane Heaven and published by Just Flight, albeit a few years ago, left a bit to be desired systemwise and even their more recent C46 with its much more basic systems fell a little short of the mark. This is slightly worrying when you consider that the system complexity in these aircraft pales in comparison to that of the Concorde

To be fair however, having recently read a couple of wartime novels where the Hawker Hurricane featured, I purchased the newly released Aeroplane Heaven version of this aircraft, having first looked at the reviews some and I have to say it is superb! Although I accept that it is not valid to compare the systems on a fighter developed in the 1930s with those on an aircraft which arguably was the pinnacle of airliner development, perhaps Aeroplane Heaven have managed to up their game of late. However I think I will still be waiting for some trusted reviews before giving AH my money for something as complex as Concorde!

Bill

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

From memory the package was an .AIR file and two .INI files. Clearly the air file can’t be used and I suspect the ini files would be of limited use elsewhere. But if @Afterburner had access to the non-copyright data used to build those files it is that which would be helpful to BAWV12.

See my post above.  I think it's wrong to take files from one product to use them to enhance one by another person/company...

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1 minute ago, scianoir said:

The One-Eleven developed by Aeroplane Heaven and published by Just Flight, albeit a few years ago, left a bit to be desired systemwise and even their more recent C46 with its much more basic systems fell a little short of the mark. This is slightly worrying when you consider that the system complexity in these aircraft pales in comparison to that of the Concorde

To be fair however, having recently read a couple of wartime novels where the Hawker Hurricane featured, I purchased the newly released Aeroplane Heaven version of this aircraft, having first looked at the reviews some and I have to say it is superb! Although I accept that it is not valid to compare the systems on a fighter developed in the 1930s with those on an aircraft which arguably was the pinnacle of airliner development, perhaps Aeroplane Heaven have managed to up their game of late. However I think I will still be waiting for some trusted reviews before giving AH my money for something as complex as Concorde!

Bill

I won't be buying it, I'll declare that now!  Reviews are only as good as the knowledge of the reviewer...

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13 minutes ago, trumpetfrazz1 said:

See my post above.  I think it's wrong to take files from one product to use them to enhance one by another person/company...

I never suggested that should happen. I tagged Konstantin ( as he's known on FSL) so he could add to the discussion.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I never suggested that should happen. I tagged Konstantin ( as he's known on FSL) so he could add to the discussion.

I didn't say you did.  I'm just remembering the time I discovered someone had been on the FSLabs forum and copied all of the updated routes by one of our contributors and pasted them all on the X-Plane Concorde forum, without even having the common courtesy to ask the person who had taken the time to do all the work. 

We as customers of FSLabs aren't even meant to change those files, far less pass them on whether original or altered. If folk want an accurate model with correct fuel burn, they either need to find the data and create one or buy one that already exists - yes, I know you can't buy Concorde X at the moment but...  

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