FSPS : FFTF DYNAMIC P3Dv5 Released

[Noel 4,501]

4 hours ago, Achilles Philippopoulos said:

Covering the worst case is the best solution. Will make your worst case smooth and flyable. So, you will never have to stop a flight, change settings etc.

I created this exact scenario, a worst case w/ sliders set to allow for a frame rate not less than 24, actually right at 24 at the gate, in the NGXu at KSFO-HD.   During pushback and taxi frame rate varied between 25 and 27, never below 24.  Actual frame rate (regardless of where I locked frame rate at 24 or 120) never went below my minimum 24.   

What I can tell you is, on no uncertain terms, this is far far inferior to simply setting frames to unlimited and vsyncing to a monitor capable of 30Hz refresh, and setting sliders such that you can maintain at least 30 frames through an entire flight plan.   Nothing beats this, except vsyncing to 60Hz IF you can maintain at least 60FPS--this is THE Holy Grail.  I can do that in a lightweight plane like the Majestic Dash 8 flying thru easy terrain so yes, it is the Holy Grail.  But a reasonably close second and I kid you not, is vsyncing to a 30Hz monitor.   FFTF may help, in my configuration, as I assumed it might:  it will allow me to have a *slightly* better chance at correcting for a pre-flight configuration error w/o needing to stop the sim.  But applicability, IOW the number of times the app will do this will be very low I'm pretty sure, and that is because I am able to pre-configure sliders to optimize the specific flight in question.

What is for sure here is I will continue to use UNLIMITED/vsync to 30Hz screen because the video has absolutely flawless fluidity.  You never get that with limiting frames in-sim in my decades of experience in trying different tweaks.  Is there any way you can see to be able to utilize FFTF Dynamic and still do UNLIMITED/vsync to 30Hz screen?

Thank you Achilles for your insights and guidance.

 

[brucewtb 249]

6 hours ago, Noel said:

I created this exact scenario, a worst case w/ sliders set to allow for a frame rate not less than 24, actually right at 24 at the gate, in the NGXu at KSFO-HD.   During pushback and taxi frame rate varied between 25 and 27, never below 24.  Actual frame rate (regardless of where I locked frame rate at 24 or 120) never went below my minimum 24.   

What I can tell you is, on no uncertain terms, this is far far inferior to simply setting frames to unlimited and vsyncing to a monitor capable of 30Hz refresh, and setting sliders such that you can maintain at least 30 frames through an entire flight plan.   Nothing beats this, except vsyncing to 60Hz IF you can maintain at least 60FPS--this is THE Holy Grail.  I can do that in a lightweight plane like the Majestic Dash 8 flying thru easy terrain so yes, it is the Holy Grail.  But a reasonably close second and I kid you not, is vsyncing to a 30Hz monitor.   FFTF may help, in my configuration, as I assumed it might:  it will allow me to have a *slightly* better chance at correcting for a pre-flight configuration error w/o needing to stop the sim.  But applicability, IOW the number of times the app will do this will be very low I'm pretty sure, and that is because I am able to pre-configure sliders to optimize the specific flight in question.

What is for sure here is I will continue to use UNLIMITED/vsync to 30Hz screen because the video has absolutely flawless fluidity.  You never get that with limiting frames in-sim in my decades of experience in trying different tweaks.  Is there any way you can see to be able to utilize FFTF Dynamic and still do UNLIMITED/vsync to 30Hz screen?

Thank you Achilles for your insights and guidance.

 

Hi Noel

Thank you for you posts what you report is pretty much identical to my experience.

Bruceb

[AnkH 2,266]

7 hours ago, Noel said:

Is there any way you can see to be able to utilize FFTF Dynamic and still do UNLIMITED/vsync to 30Hz screen?

Honestly, if your "unlimited with 30Hz" is so superb you call it the "holy grail", I wonder why you still would like to have FFTF Dynamic? What would it make better? And if it could make something better, your "unlimited with 30Hz" is probably not so superb and "holy grail" like? A little confused here...

Personally, I would get an headache when the monitor in front of me would run with 30Hz only, that I had the last time maybe 30 years ago? Furthermore, at least on my rig, every even divisor works as good as 1:1, means: if I set my monitor to 120Hz and use "1/4th of refresh rate" inside nVIDIA Inspector, I still get locked 30FPS inside the sim but not with eye-hurting 30Hz.

However, it was always like this since FSX and now also in v5: for my setup with my preferred settings, putting "unlimited" into P3D results in blurries. Not as fast as it was in v4.5 or earlier versions, but still. And it results in rather ugly 3 second stutters (might be related to G-Sync). So again in v5, the best experience I get is using 30FPS limit inside P3D and then FFTF Dynamic for those heavy scenarios the FPS drop below (using AGL method).

Result: no blurries, higher FPS on ground on heavy airports, locked 30FPS almost anywhere. Totally stutter free? No. I still think any that claims this is somehow telling rubbish or he does not consider short hickups due to terrain, autogen, scenery loading as stutter. Those I never get rid of, but that is fine for me. Really the only bothering thing is those 3 second stutters I can obviously not get rid of no matter what I try. However, with reasonable settings (enough overhead), they are in most scenarios so barely visible, I am fine for now...

[Uteman 51]

3 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Honestly, if your "unlimited with 30Hz" is so superb you call it the "holy grail", I wonder why you still would like to have FFTF Dynamic? What would it make better? And if it could make something better, your "unlimited with 30Hz" is probably not so superb and "holy grail" like? A little confused here...

I thought Noel explained with clarity why he wanted to try it.

7 hours ago, Noel said:

FFTF may help, in my configuration, as I assumed it might:  it will allow me to have a *slightly* better chance at correcting for a pre-flight configuration error w/o needing to stop the sim.

Obviously making a user error in setup can still occur regardless of how well the sim is performing and I understood from his statement he wanted FFTF to help him avoid that specific circumstance.

 

[lownslo 592]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:13 PM, Achilles Philippopoulos said:

Hi,

As some are confusing delivery address with invoice address, we disabled the invoice address. Invoice is only for companies. Normal users needs to fill up only the delivery address

Thanks Achilles.  I was pressed for time yesterday and had to bug out, but unbeknownst to me my wife (who is clearly bored after many weeks of lock-down ) followed thru using your info above plus that posted by Edward (skysurfer) to make the order.  Her solution was simple... she deleted the address that had been associated with my account for some time (so there were no addresses associated with my account) and then simply filled out the address section on the order page (your delivery method rather than invoice method).  The problems stemmed from the stored address associated with my account being seen as the invoice method of purchase.  My only problem now is that she knows how much money is in my PayPal account and wants to be rewarded for her brilliance.

For those folks fixated on using the Frames Scenario to configure FFTF Dynamic, members like Rogen, Gerard and of course Achilles have offered good explanations of how this app works and what it is designed to do.  To better understand the concept, perhaps using the AGL Scenario to configure the app is the better choice...

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to change my PayPal password.

Greg

[GSalden 4,657]

10 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

This is what I have as a current GPU usage.... in the air currently...https://imgur.com/a/aUpfp7A

Does that mean that I should use 72 or 36 instead of 59?

 

 

Your monitor is 144 hertz . So you devide this by 2 or 4 ..

Go to a heavy scenery with 144 hertz and look at the load. Then set your monitor to 72 hertz and look at your load.

If possible try the same with 36 hertz..

 

[Noel 4,501]

8 hours ago, AnkH said:

Honestly, if your "unlimited with 30Hz" is so superb you call it the "holy grail", I wonder why you still would like to have FFTF Dynamic? What would it make better? And if it could make something better, your "unlimited with 30Hz" is probably not so superb and "holy grail" like? A little confused here...

I explained that already, but here it is again:  on occasion I fail to assess how to set sliders pre-flight, so if there is something that can keep me from needing to stop and readjust, then that is a desirable.  'My' unlimited w/ 30Hz isn't mine, but if you've never seen this you owe it to yourself to see why I say this and why many others use it.  While animation is fluid smooth to a degree one could easily describe as perfect P3D 4.5 is not w/o other issues during flight, for example the occasional 'long frame', a short pause when suddenly most  logical processors suddenly hit 100% for a moment.  I am thinking perhaps tuned just right FFTF Dynamic might play a role in this but so far no joy there.  But these are rare enough not to be too concerning.  Seriously, go try unlimited w/ vsync to a 30Hz screen then you too will know perfectly smooth animation provided you can maintain at least 30 frames which if you have the hardware is easily doable w/ optimizing sliders preflight.  My 4 planes are very different in terms of load so the slider adjustments I make are part of pre-flight setup. 

Oh, no headaches here for the past 5y, and many people use this once they realize what it offers.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Noel

[Noel 4,501]

8 hours ago, AnkH said:

Furthermore, at least on my rig, every even divisor works as good as 1:1, means: if I set my monitor to 120Hz and use "1/4th of refresh rate" inside nVIDIA Inspector, I still get locked 30FPS inside the sim but not with eye-hurting 30Hz.

That is worth a look thanks.  I have no 'eye-hurting' problems w/ 30hz but if it's possible to use a divisor and have it behave identically to 30Hz that sounds like a win win.  

You know the 30Hz refresh in a LED/LCD is nothing like 30Hz refresh with a CRT, which I'm sure could be headache-inducing.

I looked in what I think is the latest Inspector and don't see a divisor option.  Is it perhaps in another app?

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Noel

[Harrier77 60]

Hi Achilles,

I am still waiting for SimMarket to have FFTF Dynamic P3Dv5. Any idea when it will be available? I have used your v4 tool for some time and really want the v5 version.

Or can you give me the 20% discount and I order from FSPS?

Peter

[AnkH 2,266]

37 minutes ago, Noel said:

I looked in what I think is the latest Inspector and don't see a divisor option.  Is it perhaps in another app?

In the nVIDIA Profile Inspector you can select this under VSYNC.

[kurtb 121]

21 minutes ago, panner said:

Hi Achilles,

I am still waiting for SimMarket to have FFTF Dynamic P3Dv5. Any idea when it will be available? I have used your v4 tool for some time and really want the v5 version.

Or can you give me the 20% discount and I order from FSPS?

Peter

same here

[spilok 1,136]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

I explained that already, but here it is again:  on occasion I fail to assess how to set sliders pre-flight, so if there is something that can keep me from needing to stop and readjust, then that is a desirable.  'My' unlimited w/ 30Hz isn't mine, but if you've never seen this you owe it to yourself to see why I say this and why many others use it.  While animation is fluid smooth to a degree one could easily describe as perfect P3D 4.5 is not w/o other issues during flight, for example the occasional 'long frame', a short pause when suddenly most  logical processors suddenly hit 100% for a moment.  I am thinking perhaps tuned just right FFTF Dynamic might play a role in this but so far no joy there.  But these are rare enough not to be too concerning.  Seriously, go try unlimited w/ vsync to a 30Hz screen then you too will know perfectly smooth animation provided you can maintain at least 30 frames which if you have the hardware is easily doable w/ optimizing sliders preflight.  My 4 planes are very different in terms of load so the slider adjustments I make are part of pre-flight setup. 

Oh, no headaches here for the past 5y, and many people use this once they realize what it offers.

Reduced my monitor resolution to 30Hz from 60Hz, and I really couldn't get comfortable with the sluggishness of the mouse pointer and the blurriness when panning quickly in the sim.

It also must have affected my P3d cfg because as I panned through the various views, the views were exaggerated and distorted.  My view defaults were off (72 zoom instead of 70 zoom, etc).

I recalled an earlier P3d cfg that I had backed up, and everything went back to normal.  I don't think 30 Hz on a 60 Hz monitor is for everyone.

Stan

[SteveW 1,792]

The aim of getting a relaxed fps output at less than the monitor refresh frequency. Instead of reducing the monitor frequency, there are two main options:

Externally limit the simulator with perhaps Nvidia Control Panel fps limit on the Prepar3D.exe profile. Set Unlimited in the sim Display Settings, VSync how you like it, Off=smooth but can see shifts in the view when turning.

The Display Settings fps lock slider is not a limiter. It continues to create frames as soon as each frame is completed, until the look-ahead buffer is filled and works like Unlimited until then. Mostly the buffer will not be complete and we see higher use of the CPU than we do with the external limiter which is a limit.

The frequency to choose for the limit is to divide the monitor refresh frequency down. Example 144 Hz monitor can do 72, 48, 36, 28.8 (29), 24, 20.57 (21).

This way we have a smooth operating mouse pointer and also can relax the simulator to a lower frequency.

When setting up NCP always start from a defaults/apply setup and always use the Prepar3D.exe profile for the simulator, not the global profile.

[Noel 4,501]

Interesting--fortunately I don't see any issues w/ the mouse pointer, and my in VC panning is great.  But if I can match the quality of video using a divisor why not.

[SteveW 1,792]

When using FFTF we are going to reduce scenery loading to help maintain fps in difficult situations. By reducing the ratio time per frame we allow loading. That's the same no matter whether we are in locked fps, unlimited, external limit there's always some time given to loading the scene. That is, if we are robbing Peter to pay Paul there has to be something to take. There must be overhead in the system to do that.