PMDG 777 vs iFLY 737NG

[snapshot21 254]

4 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

If you know the flows of the 787 and can take it from A to B without any problems. You will probably have an easy transition to the 777 and vice versa (just like real life). Maybe even easier because the PMDG will have less bugs and better VNAV calculation.

For the 747, you will need to learn or do a little reading on its systems. Like the fuel system for example. But it should be doable with enough effort even for an intermediate simmer, it is still a very automated plane 🙂

[mpw8679 428]

4 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

First things first.  Stay away from the iFly.  It is very dated visually.  The VC is horrible.  If you can handle the 787 you should be good with the PMDG birds.  The 777 is very automated and easy to learn.  But if your using v5 the 747 is the way to go at this time.  

[micstatic 4,319]

Between those two I would pick the PMDG 777.  For all the reasons already listed in this thread.  However, that airplane is similar enough to the 787 (which you already have) that I would consider something else.  I would look at the FSLabs A320 or the FlytheMaddog MD80.  The FSLabs is perhaps the finest airplane available for P3D.  So many systems to learn that will keep you interested for a long time.  The Maddog is also a fabulous airplane.  

[Jazz 1,046]

5 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

How do I answer that I ask myself.

Yes, but you will need to be willing to learn. It is a "study level" sim. Although, I dislike that term for reasons I can't quantify. I think it's usable for simmers of any level providing they are willing to put in the time. The manuals are excellent, as you would expect from a company called Precision Manuals Development Group.

I don't think operating these things is as complicated as some think it is. There is a level of knowledge required to getting the thing from cold and dark to a destination but you don't have to know, in depth, the intricacies of every system on the aircraft to do it. You just need to know what switches and buttons to hit and when. Tutorial flights will get you up to that level quickly. However, the depth of the simulation is such that you will be constantly learning as you fly it more and more. You will always be learning and understanding more and being impressed by the thing. Like I said, these type of aircraft really are rewarding.

You won't know what you're missing until you try one😉

[Ricardo41 5,949]

14 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

The PMDG isn't "study level" coz I don't see Emirates using it in their pilot training. It's expensive. yeah sure, you can press lots of buttons and turn a few switches, but it shouldn't take you longer to master than the 787 PMDG are quite good at marketing.

That said, I'd stick with the 787, which covers medium as well as long haul routes, and also a few short haul routes (for example, Saudia flies their 787-10 from Jeddah to Dubai - about 2 hours; Ethiopian flies their 787-8 from Addis Ababa to Kilimanjaro -also 2 hours). Qatar Airways has plenty of medium 5-6 hour routes, or you can do a scenic 10 hour flights on British Airways from the Seychelles to London Heathrow. As you can see, the 787 is quite versatile.

If you want a short hauler consider the siginficantly cheaper - compared to the FSLabs version - Aerosoft Airbus Professional. for $79,99 you get the A318/319/320/321, excellent value for your money, although the later versions introduced a few bugs.

Or, as I suggested above: get the ifly 737 when its compatible with P3Dv5.

[1123213 26]

  

58 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

Yes I think so. I had the NG as my first aircraft for FSX. If you do someting wrong, it won't bite, I mean if you don't turn on the fuel pumps for engine start well...... but if you can fly the QW it's fine, you might get things like overheated brakes if you brake too hard, but I found it pretty easy to jump in. "Study level" isn't a great term, on one hand you've got things like the FSLabs a320 that literally models LED's in the 320 panels, to things like the zibo, which is brilliant but not FSLabs. There's no stone-set "study level" tier. If you operate these aircraft day by day, you probably won't feel any crazy differences, but once you get into the nitty gritty VOR approaches and failures then it starts to show it's true "study-levelness" imho

If you're still up for reccomendations, I would also reccommend the TFDi 717. I don't know whether it fits your category, but there's a tone for delta domestic hops which can be 5+hours, and it's cheap for it's ability, great quality and now pretty much bug free. Plus the devs are SUPER nice!

 

Between the 777 and 747, it;s up to you.

The 744 is superior in terms of sim aircraft, it's got better systems and things like ACARS and PBR. However the 747 is being phased out globally, and passanger wise it's only getting more and more limited. But it's the 744. It's a bit more hands on, e.g. it has 3 IRS knobs that have to go to NAV rather than the 777 which has one push switch. 

The 777 is also a brilliant aircraft. It's not got the graphics of the 747, but there is a large update in the works for it (note, in the works). The 777 is probably just past its peak operational life, around 5-10 years behind the 747. It has a lot of operators globally, and it really will be a great choice when the update will be out. But Randazzo and the team are working hard on the 744, and it could be some time before the update. 

However, what levels both these birds is the Cargo side of things. They are both some of the most popular cargo aircraft, and the 744 is operating in bulk by airlines such as Atlas Air, who don't really fly any specific routes and vary, so you have the liberty of flying everywhere in a semi-realistic way, from everything such as Glasgow to Dublin, to Hong Kong to Seattle.

So it really depends. If you want an aircraft that will make your jaw drop when you jump in the beautiful cockpit and take it on a late night hop to Anchorage, then thats the one for you.

But if you want an aircraft that flies really nicely, and makes your jaw drop in a range of liveries and airlines next year, then that's the 777 for you.

If you switch from the 787-777, you'll jump right in and probably won't get that new-learning feeling. The texturing also isn't as good right now, but the systems are way better. Also if you've bought scenery for the 787 airports, most airlines that fly the 787 fly the 777, which is a large plus, they are interchangeble on routes. 

Lastly, where do you want your sim to go? if you're eyeing the new MSFS, then I'm not sure PMDG is a good idea. There is a 99% chance you will have to re-buy your product, which is almost 300 dollars of addons (unless you're not fussed). 

I'm going to also be annoying, and reccomend the FSLabs A321 overall. They are working on the sharklet varients, and they have the A321. You can stick with the A320 if you want, but many airlines operate the 321 w/ sharklets on hops over 7 hours from Russia to the Canaries for example. Yes, it's 200 dollars, but I don't think they would charge you fully to re-buy (they didn't for FSX-> P3D). Pluss it is the BEST aircraft for P3D/FSX. Trust me, I didn't believe anyone at first coming from the PMDG 737, but it's true. With the A321LR adding more operators, more airlines are flying the 321 (albeit a different varient). There's always the Aerosoft version instead if you want to go cheaper.

 

Stay safe and sorry for the TED talk,

Canine 🙂

EDIT: Did you buy the 787 recently? You can get a refund within 15 or 30 days (I can't remember)

Edited May 15, 2020 by Canine Crew

[David Vega 348]

59 minutes ago, Maaarp said:

Having problems with the FMC in the final phases of flight. When you add a runway to the arrivals it seems to add a couple of extra (and quite incorrect) waypoints. Weird!

@Maaarp, Suggest focusing on this issue before buying anything else.  Is this a problem reported by other QW B787 pilots?  Could you provide an example of the problem, i.e., what runway at what airport and what points were added?  

You already have a good simulation of one of the newest long haul aircrafts.  You also said you like learning, which is a mark of a good pilot.  Let's figure out if what you're experiencing with the 787 is just an opportunity to learn.  Hope we can do that before this thread turns into another battle between unpaid marketing departments for popular add on manufacturers.  

[MindYerBeak 73]

1 hour ago, C2615 said:

No, it won't, DU will blank.etc,etc...

beside the hotfix to make it work in v5,iFly will also upgrade it's VC (I think at least to their 747 standard), and other improves, so charge for that is fair IMO, but just wait for that instead of buying v4 right now.

I already own the ifly even if to be honest I have a hard time thinking that ifly737 will beat the ngxu.

[rmeier 473]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're looking at a (non-stop?) from Australia to Canada, vice versa...that pretty much limits your choices.

The base PMDG 777 (200LR) will do that. It's a great plane but it is dated...by today's standards, the VC doesn't look that good anymore...but it is a solid, reliable plane. I, too, am waiting on the update for this aircraft...although that has been promised for a while now.

I really like the iFly 737...the latest update together with the "updated" VC graphics and choice of variants make it a good deal...but it will not run in P3D v5. (A remake, paid upgrade, is supposed to be in the works.) It won't make the trip non-stop though.

The long haul PMDG 748 is excellent...but that is a paid expansion upon an already costly base product...if budget is your consideration. Depending on your flying preference, for example, there are not a lot of real world PAX B748's running around.

There are plenty of video tutorials available for the PMDG products...Boeing FMC's don't vary that much...your learning curve won't be that long if you choose to go the PMDG route.

Good luck!

[C2615 319]

1 hour ago, Maaarp said:

Do you reckon the PMDG is usable for an intermediate simmer such as myself? I'm probably not ready for a study level aircraft but can handle the QW 787 ok (for the most part)

 

Actually, a better sim is better for beginner, You must be more experienced to figure out what's going on with QW787's(and, CS757 and, FTejets'....) VNAV logic, or weird display behavoir etc, etc.... the real alrplanes are desigb with the mind that it's to be flown by people who might make mistake thus must be very reliable and easy to understand, thus better sim on that, better it for beginner.

34 minutes ago, MindYerBeak said:

I already own the ifly even if to be honest I have a hard time thinking that ifly737 will beat the ngxu.

As I said, RF-legs (or even DME arcs, compare to PMDG) and HIGHLAND, btw speking of long haul jet.... ifly came with BBJ and 700ER, which could do long haul over 4000nm.

BUT STILL, I would NOT recommand iFly 737NG over PMDG NGXu for now, and PMDG might cover my problem with new LNAV logic and more variation later..

[1123213 26]

Have to agree, the more that comes with the aircraft, the less likely that the different variants have realistic drag and performance differences, and are more different visually imho, maybe excl the QOTSII

However, I completely agree, let's not turn this into a addon vs addon thread.

[Christopher Low 5,353]

59 minutes ago, rmeier said:

If I'm reading this correctly, you're looking at a (non-stop?) from Australia to Canada, vice versa...that pretty much limits your choices.The base PMDG 777 (200LR) will do that. It's a great plane but it is dated...by today's standards, the VC doesn't look that good anymore...but it is a solid, reliable plane......

I must be using a different PMDG 777 then, because the VC looks fantastic on my PC.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Christopher Low

[d.tsakiris 418]

Had the iFly for FSX, and now PMDG 777 and 747 for 4.5, and I don't think the latter are that much better, if at all. The only thing I didn't like with the iFly were a few click-spots. Other than that, for my simming needs, the iFly was up there with PMDG. PMDG has progressed since then, but iFly has and will as well. And I always thought the BBJs were really cool...

[Chock 17,769]

Frankly, you'd be better off getting hold of one of these books and demystifying the controls of airliners so you are confident enough to fly anything. Learning this stuff is part of the fun of flight sims and these books make that task both entertaining and easily achieved:

https://utem.com/

[jon b 2,047]

The main parts of flying an airliner is being able to operate the autopilot through the MCP and use the FMC.  If you’re able to do this on the 787 then you will be able to on the 747-400 they’re extremely similar and for the most part identical.

To that end without having to go through relearning everything to operate an Airbus type I’d say the PMDG 747 is your best option. The PMDG 747 is arguably the best simulation available today, certainly from the Boeing side of things, with its systems and visual modelling.

The product is certainly “ study level” but unless you start introducing failures into the mix, that’s where it gets complicated, the aircraft itself shouldn’t prove anymore difficult than the 787 to fly in a normal day to day operation. It’s just a case of practicing the simple panel flows which will be similar to the 787 as there’s the Boeing commonality. 

Every time I load up the PMDG 74 I’m blown away by the quality. If you decided you do want to start exploring the systems and failures then there’s enough to keep you busy for years, which makes the initial investment price all worth it. The amount of depth in the simulation is just breathtaking, most of which admittedly won’t ever be noticed or used by a lot of users , only the dedicated 747 fans.

Up until last week I was a captain on the real world 747 ( bloody virus🤬) and I continue to be amazed at finding the little nuances in the systems modelling and handling of this product, it’s truly outstanding.

Also with the 747-400 you can fly it on a positioning flight empty with 25 tonnes of fuel and you’ve got yourself an aircraft approaching last generation fighter/bomber levels of performance, quite a hand full !

And lastly the 747-400 is the perfect blend of 1980’s analog and digital technology , and the controls are all connected to the wing with real wires and pulleys, she’s just perfect.