REX SkyForce. Does it inject clouds or not?

[robert young 2,897]

I recently acquired REX's Skyforce 3d and Environment Force 3d. The latter most definitely can inject clouds (using "cloud sync") into P3d while the sim is running and you can see the immediate difference. However despite the manual clearly implying Skyforce 3d does the same, it doesn't seem to. While you can use EF3d to edit the clouds on the fly, the control over the shape, type and look of the clouds are not as detailed as with SkyForce3d.

I keep reading the Skyforce manual over to try and grasp what REX actually means and I have to say I have rarely read such unclear, tortuous language which goes around the block several times while not making it clear whether the clouds can be "injected" or not! I am assuming the answer is no, even though the same terms "sync" and "inject" are used many times. Can anyone here please venture to confirm whether "injection" really means what it implies, or that the only way to see results is to speculatively choose a cloud type then run the sim, then close the sim, edit the clouds then open the sim again?

Thank you.

[cyyzrwy24 118]

It does...just disable weather injection and off you go....and, at least in my case, don't use TS with it or you will have endless white clouds under you...like a plank of white sheet. Unless someone has better ides...Open for suggestions....

All this, if you have ASP....also don't get confused with cloud sync and weather injection....two different things.

Edited May 15, 2020 by cyyzrwy24

[robert young 2,897]

Thanks for that. Unfortunately I'm a bit slow on undeclared acronyms (there are so many of them). I take ASP to be active sky - I don't have that. I don't know what "TS" is (probably obvious once I know). I asked the questions because Skyforce has been updated many times since the long thread about it in 2018, when users made clear it could not by itself inject new clouds that you could see live. My question is (to be clear), Does Skyforce 3d inject clouds now, live, with the sim running, so you can SEE the change in shape or texture, with p3d running, not minimised, stopped, or reloaded, but LIVE as you fly  WHILE you are running P3d, by itself, without running any other software? If it now does that's great but nothing whatsoever in the manual clearly explains how to do this, and a long Avsim thread in 2018 seemed to conclude that at the time it could not achieve this (although Environment Force 3d can). As I said, I have never read such an obfuscatory manual.

I used to write a lot of manuals myself. The approach I took was:  If you want to do something do this: Step 1, Step 2. Step 3, etc. The Skyforce Manual is a wonderful example of how not to explain things in clear language, however clever the software might be.

Would you mind taking me through the steps. 1. I have P3d running and can see the aircraft in spot view at altitude. 2. Does Skyforce have to be running BEFORE loading P3d? Step 3. To "inject" and see, live, a new cloud type/ shape, what do I do? I have of course read the manual many times over, but it is almost embarrassingly vague about whether it can actually inject live clouds while you fly. Ever so grateful if you could explain. Thank you.

Please note that at the moment I am not particularly interested in a weather engine, or changing weather. I just would like to inject into the sim reasonably convincing looking clouds, which so far in my opinion no-one seems to be able to achieve.

Edited May 15, 2020 by robert young
typo

[vcarlo 529]

You MUST use SkyForce running if this is going to be your Weather Engine..  You ALSO use SkyForce to inject your desired textures (clouds, skies, etc) into EnvForce. EF (running) is what will provide you the changing (syncing)  skies, clouds,etc during your flight.  Manual mode in EF is only used if you want to TWEAK all the different textures.  I would recommend you keep EF in AUTO mode until you feel very comfortable with the software. Once you have set up the textures you like and have gone thru the installation, you are ready to set up your flight.

STEP 1 - Start up SF and get your WX going.  STEP 2 - Start up EF and I recommend you use the TWEAK FREE mode. STEP 3 - Fire up P3D and start your flight  🙂

There are numerous options you can choose and there are just too many to cover in a thread such as this one. GOOD LUCK ! 

[robert young 2,897]

Hi Vcarlo, Thanks for contributing. I am not really interested in this stage in weather engines, only for now in creating decent looking clouds. So are you saying that Skyforce BY ITSELF cannot inject clouds with P3d running so they appear LIVE, but I have to run Environment force AS WELL?

Are you suggesting this because that enables me to tweak the clouds in Skyforce, then through syncing use Environment Force to inject them in real time all in the same session in P3d? And are you saying in other words that you HAVE to run both REX apps at the same time in order to change the fundamental cloud shapes and structures/textures live in real time, unless you are using the limited editing functions of just EF by itself?

There is no mention of this in the manual of Skyforce but it makes sense. The confusion here is that the two apps use the word "sync" in seemingly a different way. In EF "syncing" most definitely produces a live view of edited clouds while the sim is running and I can see that happening. With Skyforce I cannot see any changes in the sim, even though the app keeps mentioning the word "sync".

So, am I right to assume the following: Startup both SkyForce and Environment force, then start p3d and load a flight. Go in to spot view (ideally) and when in a suitable location, choose a suite of clouds in Skyforce or tweak them (without seeing the live result), THEN maximise Environment Force, click on "SYNC CLOUDS" . What next? How do I make EF "call up" the tweaks/edits/clouds I have just created in Skyforce? I know to choose clouds directly just using EF but do not know how both apps (SF3d, EF3d) interact so I can see in realtime the edits I made.

Thanks for any reply and for your patience.

[cyyzrwy24 118]

6 minutes ago, robert young said:

So, am I right to assume the following: Startup both SkyForce and Environment force,

Hey Robert...I thought you were asking for V5....vcarlo explained properly for V4....you can run only EF because it will pull textures from SF....and if you have ASP4 that will bring more accuracy cloud and weather wise. And if you do have ASP4 than disable weather injection in SF...

V5 doesn't work with EF only SF.

[vcarlo 529]

1 minute ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

Hey Robert...I thought you were asking for V5....vcarlo explained properly for V4....you can run only EF because it will pull textures from SF....and if you have ASP4 that will bring more accuracy cloud and weather wise. And if you do have ASP4 than disable weather injection in SF...

V5 doesn't work with EF only SF.

Not exactly... you CANNOT use EF or SF with P3D v5 in Enhanced Atmosphere mode.  I keep EA turned off and have used both EF and SF many flights with the textures from SkyForce changing during every Wx update.  The OP does not have ASP4.  Robert,  if you are using P3D default weather, just be sure to NOT enable the EA in v5 weather if you use REX .  If you do not use SF weather, then it DOES NOT need to be running during flight, but EF does have to run.

[vcarlo 529]

24 minutes ago, robert young said:

 

So, am I right to assume the following: Startup both SkyForce and Environment force, then start p3d and load a flight. Go in to spot view (ideally) and when in a suitable location, choose a suite of clouds in Skyforce or tweak them (without seeing the live result), THEN maximise Environment Force, click on "SYNC CLOUDS" . What next? How do I make EF "call up" the tweaks/edits/clouds I have just created in Skyforce? I know to choose clouds directly just using EF but do not know how both apps (SF3d, EF3d) interact so I can see in realtime the edits I made.

 

It's not as complicated as it sounds.  You don't have to do anything like that.  Once you have chosen the type of clouds, skies, etc, the WEATHER ENGINE is what determines how the skies and clouds look. That's why so many people prefer Active Sky because Active Sky has always been considered the best in terms of reproducing the proper skies and clouds based on local metars.  Just install the clouds from SF to EF and shut it down.  Then run EF ( I recommend AUTO MODE) and fly your flight.  Everything else is done for you.

Edited May 16, 2020 by vcarlo

[cyyzrwy24 118]

10 minutes ago, vcarlo said:

Not exactly... you CANNOT use EF or SF with P3D v5 in Enhanced Atmosphere mode.

Correct...as I mentioned V5 doesn't support EF..only "support" SF and in combination with ASP gives very good results...still not as V4....my opinion....

[robert young 2,897]

Thanks but one more question if I may. You say "just install the clouds from SF to EF". But how do I do this please? I understand how to "Sync"/inject individual cloud sets/textures by syncing from EF to SF, but how do I "sync" a whole set of cloud structures/textures in one go into EF? I well understand that a weather engine (or P3d's own weather menu) can layer different cloud depths and heights plus visibilty, but it's really the type, look and structure of the core clouds that I am interested in.

[robert young 2,897]

22 minutes ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

Hey Robert...I thought you were asking for V5....vcarlo explained properly for V4....you can run only EF because it will pull textures from SF....and if you have ASP4 that will bring more accuracy cloud and weather wise. And if you do have ASP4 than disable weather injection in SF...

V5 doesn't work with EF only SF.

Sorry, but V5 of what? Do you mean P3d V5 (I have P3d V4) or do you mean version 5 of a REX product? Since I only just purchased EnvForce 3d and SkyForce 3d I assume they were both the latest versions. I am even more confused now!

I do not have a weather "engine" apart from the one in Skyforce, which I do not use. I am only interested in creating decent looking clouds. I use the standard P3d v4 weather menu to create layers, types and visibility. I don't need to see changing weather, dynamic weather or live weather updates. I like to simply set a layer or two of convincing looking clouds and set them so they stay that way in one flying session. I have yet to see any convincing looking clouds using an external weather app, but I know others seem to think they are decent. But that's another subject!

[cyyzrwy24 118]

12 minutes ago, robert young said:

Thanks but one more question if I may. You say "just install the clouds from SF to EF"

Sorry...I meant that you were referring to V5 originally.....so I was ahead of myself. If you have both (SF and EF):

Set SF the way you like it, once. You can download presets from community. Once set, you don't have to run it with the SIM. Only what you need is to open  EF before you launch you SIM. In settings (EF), under TEXTURE/ "Texture Program Folder Location" you can find connection to your SF, point to SF folder....Also few other settings are there and you can set them to your liking or suitable to your system.

Now....make sure if you have ASP4, to disable REX weather injection SF....you can find that in, settings, engine....

That's all... if you need help just ask...

[vcarlo 529]

 

2 minutes ago, robert young said:

Sorry, but V5 of what? Do you mean P3d V5 (I have P3d V4) or do you mean version 5 of a REX product? Since I only just purchased EnvForce 3d and SkyForce 3d I assume they were both the latest versions. I am even more confused now!

I do not have a weather "engine" apart from the one in Skyforce, which I do not use. I am only interested in creating decent looking clouds. I use the standard P3d v4 weather menu to create layers, types and visibility. I don't need to see changing weather, dynamic weather or live weather updates. I like to simply set a layer or two of convincing looking clouds and set them so they stay that way in one flying session. I have yet to see any convincing looking clouds using an external weather app, but I know others seem to think they are decent. But that's another subject!

Yes, we were referring to the version of P3D.  If you're not using a weather engine and do not care about dynamic weather changes, you actually don't need Environment Force.  Now that I have a better understanding of what you want, I think I can help you easier.

STEP 1 - Open Sky Force - the only icon you want for now is the "cloud icon".  Click on it.

STEP 2 - You will create your desired THEME by going thru each option and clicking ADD TO THEME on each option you choose (Clouds - Skies - Sun - Moon - Lightning - Sounds)  After you have made a selection for each category click on the icon that looks like a "dog eared" sheet of paper

STEP 3 - Theme page - Save and Name your theme then CLICK ON INSTALL .

STEP 4 - Set up your flight weather as desired and GO FLY.  If you don't like the looks of everything, then you get to try new textures by going thru STEP 2 and 3 again. 

[robert young 2,897]

Thank you vcarlo. That's clear. But by this you are implying I CAN use just SkyForce to inject clouds/skies into P3d V4 live, in realtime, without quitting the sim and restarting it? Still a bit confused. I only purchased Environment Force because on other forums people said only it, not Skyforce, was capable of realtime cloud injection while the sim is running. By "injection" I do not mean injection of changing or dynamic weather. I mean live injection of a cloud/sky set. Apologies for these questions and thanks for your kind patience.

Edited May 16, 2020 by robert young
typo

[vcarlo 529]

8 minutes ago, robert young said:

Thank you vcarlo. That's clear. But by this you are implying I CAN use just SkyForce to inject clouds/skies into P3d V4 live, in realtime, without quitting the sim and restarting it? Still a bit confused. I only purchased Environment Force because on other forums people said only it, not Skyforce, was capable of realtime cloud injection while the sim is running. By "injection" I do not mean injection of changing or dynamic weather. I mean live injection of a cloud/sky set. Apologies for these questions and thanks for your kind patience.

Sorry, did not mean to confuse you.  You cannot use SF only to inject clouds/skies into P3D live - real time.  You need to use EF in the TWEAK MODE. I tried that once and found it not to my liking, so I would not be the one for advice on this.  There is a tiny window (GUI) you pull up and can change many many things while looking at your skies.  It involves cloud morphing, color morphing, lighting changes, water and terrain changes, etc etc .To me this may be ideal for someone who loves to tweak everything, but I demur.