Asobo- vrs, dlss?

[Anthracite 131]

So.. development is further a long now - we’ve even got an idea about the requirements.

 

what I am interested to know at the moment is how much support asobo is planning for variable rate shading and deep learning super sampling (Nvidia) after release.

 

Both of these technologies would seem to work phenomenally with a flight simulator.

Vrs works best when adjacent pixels are very similarly lit/coloured and with all the sky, ground and sea that will be filling our screens there could be a great increase in performance available for little to no difference in visuals.

This also applies to Nvidia dlss, deep learning super sampling. The newest version is so good at what it does not only does it often offer a performance increase it also often looks better than the native resolution. 
 

Both of these technologies would seem to be a perfect fit for msfs. However both of these technologies require an up to date api and gpu (Turing/ampere or rdna2).

So it’s obviously not something I expect for release but in the future? It seems like something you’d want to leverage, particularly considering how it would benefit a vr implementation.

What’s everyone’s thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kopteeni 819]

I really hope supporting the platform for the next 10 years is going to happen. We would then most likely see these techs implemented with the DX12 migration.

Also very interesting tech coming to the UE5 engine. Their pixel per triangle lods would work so well in MSFS so hopefully something similar we would eventually see in Asobo engine.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

VRS is a DirectX 12 feature, so when the simulator is upgraded to that I guess it will be supported.

DLSS 2.0 is looking really interesting and is apparently much easier to implement, though I think they might want to wait on that. There is a rumour (by a not so reputable leaker though) that DLSS 3.0 can be applied to any game featuring TAA (and according to that leaked menu screenshot it does already), and it has been hinted that AMD are preparing their own AI upscaling solution, which will likely be vendor-agnostic.

But I agree that those features are essential when it comes to a GPU-bound game, making a near-native 4K presentation much easier to achieve.

[Claviateur 789]

I am curious to know, later when MSFS will be close to the release date, how the future updates will happen and what strategy they will pick.

We heard about the 10 years support yet we don't know if MSFS will have continuous updates with goodies and refinement like the other simulator or one major update every few months... Or the classic new version every 2 years or so...

But clearly any new graphic technology like this one, will require probably some deep refactoring work in the main engine itself and this could affect many areas in the simulator... Also the addons that will be available for the MSFS could become useless until they are refactored or updated themselves...

We saw an example of such refactoring in the other simulator. The implementation of Vulkan in 11.50 was like a reboot to the simulator version. It was as if they released this V11 version back again after 4 years of being used. A lot of addons and plugins became useless after that major rework in the engine rendering technology...

Although Vulkan showed that it was overdue as it made a big improvement in performance, I felt that the choice to make it happen in a update after 4 years in the version's life was not a good idea...  So many users invested and created their ecosystem of addons and plugins since 2016 and now they see most of all this useless until the version is stable and developers release updates for their addons and plugins to support Vulkan ... I thought that implementing Vulkan would have been a much wiser idea in the next major version of that sim...

All this to say that the refactoring of a graphic engine with any new technology, no matter how valuable it is, for the Flight SImulators we like to use, with the business models we already know (i.e: multiple addons and mods), can make people more frustrated than happy no matter how sharp and valuable the new graphic technology will be...

So let's see how the whole engine will be maintained during the upcoming years, without affecting the user experience. 

[Anthracite 131]

3 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

VRS is a DirectX 12 feature, so when the simulator is upgraded to that I guess it will be supported.

DLSS 2.0 is looking really interesting and is apparently much easier to implement, though I think they might want to wait on that. There is a rumour (by a not so reputable leaker though) that DLSS 3.0 can be applied to any game featuring TAA (and according to that leaked menu screenshot it does already), and it has been hinted that AMD are preparing their own AI upscaling solution, which will likely be vendor-agnostic.

But I agree that those features are essential when it comes to a GPU-bound game, making a near-native 4K presentation much easier to achieve.

I just read about dlss 3.0 today, it would be very exciting if true. They are continuing to train the a.i so I’m confident it will get better, but being able to work with any game that currently uses taa seems too good to be true. 

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

48 minutes ago, Anthracite said:

I just read about dlss 3.0 today, it would be very exciting if true. They are continuing to train the a.i so I’m confident it will get better, but being able to work with any game that currently uses taa seems too good to be true. 

Apparently the only thing required is a driver implementation from NVIDIA's side, however it's true that pretty much the entire Ampere leak sounds too good to be true, and the more reputable leakers are calling it fake. Still though, NVIDIA will definitely keep improving the solution and market it heavily, though a vendor-agnostic solution (via DirectML probably) is the best way forward.

[Anthracite 131]

43 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Apparently the only thing required is a driver implementation from NVIDIA's side, however it's true that pretty much the entire Ampere leak sounds too good to be true, and the more reputable leakers are calling it fake. Still though, NVIDIA will definitely keep improving the solution and market it heavily, though a vendor-agnostic solution (via DirectML probably) is the best way forward.

I’ll always support vendor agnostic solutions but amd really need to up their game with rdna2 to make me consider not getting ampere. Nvidias latest gen has felt like a cash grab and I’m still using a gtx 970. If rdna2 is good I’d like to buy one, but if the rumours presented about dlss 3.0 are true it’s going to be a no brainer. I’d have to get a 3070. 

[noob123 57]

Have games ever had their directX version upgraded? All the games I've played, users have been stuck with the Dx version that came out at launch since the developers would have to basically rewrite the game to support a higher version 

[G-RFRY 1,708]

There are a load of games out that run on DX12 now, and the hardware testers benchmark using DX11 and DX12 games.

Also future game consoles will compete with the gaming PC.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/new-consoles-help-design-the-pcs-of-the-futuresays-tim-sweeneythe-ceo-of-epic.html

Edited May 19, 2020 by G-RFRY

[goates 576]

2 hours ago, noob123 said:

Have games ever had their directX version upgraded? All the games I've played, users have been stuck with the Dx version that came out at launch since the developers would have to basically rewrite the game to support a higher version 

There have been some games which receive graphics API updates or patches after release. Doom (2016) was updated to use the Vulcan API where the initial release used OpenGL. Although it isn't common, no.

[Kopteeni 819]

2 hours ago, noob123 said:

Have games ever had their directX version upgraded? All the games I've played, users have been stuck with the Dx version that came out at launch since the developers would have to basically rewrite the game to support a higher version 

Fortnite went from DX11 to DX12 a few years after initial launch. I think games that are offered as a service with micro transactions have a good chance at getting major updates well after launch. Hopefully MSFS will also successfully find a way to keep the money flowing in.

[ludekbrno 302]

3 hours ago, noob123 said:

Have games ever had their directX version upgraded? All the games I've played, users have been stuck with the Dx version that came out at launch since the developers would have to basically rewrite the game to support a higher version 

MS FSX for example 🙂. It was released with DX9 and some of service packs brought update to DX10, but only as DX10 preview with limited options.

Edited May 19, 2020 by ludekbrno

[Anthracite 131]

5 hours ago, noob123 said:

Have games ever had their directX version upgraded? All the games I've played, users have been stuck with the Dx version that came out at launch since the developers would have to basically rewrite the game to support a higher version 

Lots have and they wouldn’t have to rewrite. All versions from DirectX 10 onwards basically only include new functionality and can run using the legacy code paths. You lose the ability to run on the older versions if your game relies on something present in the new api.

World of Warcraft for example has used 9.0 and its variants, 10 and its variants, 11 and 12.
 

So, they’d have to include the new functionality, make calls to the api where they want to use it and probably refactor some code in the renderer before compiling a new game exe.

[ricka47 611]

Do we know the reason that the new sim won't just be in DX12 in the first place?

[ludekbrno 302]

1 hour ago, ricka47 said:

Do we know the reason that the new sim won't just be in DX12 in the first place?

Yes, when they did start a MSFS development, DX12 did't exist yet.