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Sesquashtoo

It seems Microsoft just played their subscription game hand.

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46 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Is that more speculation? 🙂  I'd dare suggest there are many more flight simmers that have zero experience with Game Pass.  In fact, start a poll and "Have you ever used MS Game Pass?"  Yes or No and I'm almost certain you'll see more than 5 people responding with a "No".

I'll start by saying I have no experience with Game Pass. I can guess that if I stop paying the monthly charge then I lose access to any game(s) I have been playing. If I buy it, it's mine.

Curious to know how many of the 100s of games on Game Pass require a constant and continual downloading of data (scenery, clouds, precipitation, traffic, etc, etc) to show a real world in real time with current real weather conditions? Is this included in the $10/month or is there another tier of pay once you go past XXX number of GBs?

Flying from KORD to KLAS showing the level of detail in the pre-Alpha Sept. 2019 videos is going to eat up lots and lots of GBs. Round trip that data, three times a week for a month. I really don't think Microsoft is that generous.

 

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-J

13700KF | RTX 4090 @ 4K | 32GB DDR5 | 2 x 1TB SSDs | 1TB M.2 NVMe

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26 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

It's been this way since about 2006,

It’s been that way for much longer. I remember between MSFS starting around 98, Pro Pilot, Flight Unlimited, and Fly!, people would throw on their team’s jerseys and go at it just like today. 


Chris

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If you look at the development costs of a simulator like MSFS2020, you'd find that to make that business profitable MS will need a more or less constant inflow of cash. LM did very well, as far as I know, in charging approximately every two years another license fee after they release a new major P3D version. The same would apply to MS. If they (and they know how to do it) want to continue development for the new sim and recover all costs associated to the initial development, the bandwidth infrastructure and the associated annual expenses of the streaming, they should ask for something like a monthly subscription and an initial "access" payment (GamePass in the MS jargon?).

For sure, and they've already had the experience, they won't look for something similar to what happened with FSX, in those days when you purchased a set of disks and forget about future payments to them to keep the simulator alive and continuously progressing.

Cheers, Ed

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Cheers, Ed

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4 hours ago, mtr75 said:

Oh yeah, people have just been dumping endlessly on MSFS around here! Lol

C’mon. All mentions of MSFS around here have been about how amazing it’s going to be and what a pile v5 is in comparison. And now someone has the gall to start posting facts. And the MSFS crowd loses it. 

Kinda funny. 

Er, there are no "facts" here.  It appears to be someone fundamentally misunderstanding what a Game Pass subscription is, for the umpteenth time.  Followed by the same speculation that has been ongoing for months, about whether the game itself will have a subscription model or not.

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Look I don't even know what the real name of the "Simulator of the Gods" is going to be so I sure don't know what it is going to cost. What I am pretty sure of is this.....If....MS is going to give us the greatest Simulator the world has ever seen + Free weather and add ons like planes that have 1000 pressure points each + all those pressure points over the terrain so we can just watch the breeze flow over mountains at will+ scenery so out of this world I can land a chopper in my back yard + I can just download all the weather and scenery with bandwith not a problem at all -just let it flow down til you little heart is content and if that is not enough then MS has commited to continue to make this all better for the next 8 years or so at least. The guys in the MS shirts here say yep all that and more for $9.95 per month. But wait!! there is more....not only to you get all that for one low price and it will even work on that old Etch-a-sketch that you saw in the basement last week and if you call right now we will throw in hundreds of other games for the same low price. Oh and the thing I mentioned above about being sure of......It just don't add up.

Edited by shivers9
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Sam

Prepar3D V5.3/12700K@5.1/EVGA 3080 TI/1000W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung@3840x2160/ASP3D/ASCA/ORBX/
ChasePlane/General Aviation/Honeycomb Alpha+Bravo/MFG Rudder Pedals/

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23 minutes ago, edpatino said:

If you look at the development costs of a simulator like MSFS2020, you'd find that to make that business profitable MS will need a more or less constant inflow of cash. LM did very well, as far as I know, in charging approximately every two years another license fee after they release a new major P3D version. The same would apply to MS. If they (and they know how to do it) want to continue development for the new sim and recover all costs associated to the initial development, the bandwidth infrastructure and the associated annual expenses of the streaming, they should ask for something like a monthly subscription and an initial "access" payment (GamePass in the MS jargon?).

For sure, and they've already had the experience, they won't look for something similar to what happened with FSX, in those days when you purchased a set of disks and forget about future payments to them to keep the simulator alive and continuously progressing.

Cheers, Ed

If they are going to keep supporting the sim on an ongong basis for years, then they will certainly need an ongoing source of new revenue to justify that cost.  However, there are more ways to filet that particular fish, than the blunt instrument of a monthly subscription.  Games have been figuring this out for years now.

For one, it sounds like the sim will probably have an optional built-in "store" for add-ons and whatnot, the sales of which will probably net them a healthy commission.  For two, they might count on the sim bringing in new Game Pass subs, to cover any costs of bandwidth and server cycles, etc.  For three, they might offer their own post-release add-on content for purchase, which would likely be very profitable at the prices flight simmers are used to paying.

Maybe they even see MSFS as a "proof of concept" of sorts, for the power of integrating Azure into games, and see it worth eating any associated costs to use it as a promotional tool.

The reality is we don't know yet, but there are lots of other options that don't require them to simply attach a monthly subscription to the sim.

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This thread is a repeat.  This "discussion" has already happened in the past.  This thread should have been locked after the very first post.

Asobo (the developers) have stated publicly that the sim will be available for purchase outright (no monthly fees or subscriptions).  Microsoft announced last year that the game would also be available as a GamePass product... that's an also not an exclusively.  Stop reading into things.  Yeesh.

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Ed Wilson

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My Playland - I69

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4 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

I'm confused here. Is this part of that Q&A section or speculation?

It was info that was (supposed) to be IN the Q and A.   If I had direct access to it, I would have posted it quicker than a lighting strike.  I don't have a Insider Subscript,  but read from one that claimed to. I then felt, that if I posted WHERE it is supposed to be...then those that DO HAVE access to that section, could come back, and say (if they wished to) "yep...it was there, or no it was not".  As Rob mentioned....it SEEMS that M.S. has no interest in confirming yeah, or nay...and I have to, like everybody else, have to personally decipher what the reason for that ......could be?   How hard would it be, as he suggested, that they confirm that (if this is indeed the case) you have the option of a one time payment for the sim...and have access to all the downstream data to enable all its features, and STATED (with whom is confirming it) in a Microsoft owned media platform....

Edited by Sesquashtoo

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12 minutes ago, WarpD said:

This thread is a repeat.  This "discussion" has already happened in the past.  This thread should have been locked after the very first post.

Asobo (the developers) have stated publicly that the sim will be available for purchase outright (no monthly fees or subscriptions).  Microsoft announced last year that the game would also be available as a GamePass product... that's an also not an exclusively.  Stop reading into things.  Yeesh.

So WarpD, you support  Forum Content Censorship?   Locking a thread is just that.   What's wrong with people discussing ANY topic, as long as it doesn't contravene respect  and/or personal attack?  A topic should not be recommended to be LOCKED, merely because it vexes the one suggesting it be.  Others, might enjoy the interaction. 

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7 hours ago, Sesquashtoo said:

 

Was released on May 15th, 2020 to Insider's...

"Microsoft Flight Simulator is coming to Windows 10 with Xbox Game Pass..."

You will find above in the Q & A section of the Insider Login.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okeedokey...$15.00 for full Game Box, or $9.99 per month, to fly through MSFS2020 skies...  

My prediction...P3Dv5 will start flying off the shelves now....over the next few weeks...   Some people will not want to budget in $120.00 per year, to get past the Flash Screen.   Some will...a lot won't...OK...back to P3D 'stuff'...:)

I always had a doubt that this would be a 'you buy one time'...as they have to maintain bandwidth and other hard costs...welcome to the 'new normal'....

Just deal with the fact your over-rated P3D is finished. And X-PLane. And...everything else, 

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How much did y'all pay for your IPhone, and what does that contract cost every month?  Huh?  

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As user of Game pass I am very familiar with MS subscriptions - but mine is on X Box X - so here's my 2 cents worth - especially for those of you who only have a mid range PC - like me.

It's no secret that I have been spruking the X BOX series X  for some time now - especially as the spec is equal or better Than 

and a whole lot less expensive - to what it would cost to build a computer to handle this new sim - and as laid down by MS themselves

$A 5000 - as opposed to $A750 - (which is $A100 more than the last X BOX on release)

I believe the cost of the X box in November will be around $A 750 and the cost of the "Game" around $A 100 ( the price of most new top games)

(which is the same cost as P3D 5 sim - $A 100 )😉

 

(the US $ is around 2/3rds the Aussie $)

 

Personally - there is no way I can afford the sort of new computer $$s  outlay that will be needed - either PC or X BOX - but there are ways to obtain such

an X BOX  package for a subscription of around $A 28/34  per month over 2 years - similar to a current offer -  by our major local internet provider 

and which also includes the 100 game pass - after 2 years - the box is yours and the contribution drops to $10/month - for the games pass

 

( and at 85 - that might just be the way I - and some other oldies - might just be going):smile: 

 

The current cost of a subscription  "Games Pass" - and I pay it - is $A10/month - for 100 games - (as many as your 1TB box will hold) and the Gold Pass

is $A15 - which gives access to most of the latest games and the 100 as well - and large discounts if you wish to purchase one of any on offer

as well as DLC (recent additions to the 100 GP -  are Aces 7 flight sim -  and Redemption 11 - both on sale around $A 75/100 - as are all games). The same sub will apply to the PC as well.

Any upgrades are automatically installed - and if you add another game - it will be up to date..

 

Reading the latest Info  on SDK and the number of developers and companies  leads one to surmise that life will still be full of addons particularly

airports and aircraft.- and orgs like Steam and others (Orbx) will be the resellers - with the MS shop - for such addons

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7 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

The six phases of a project:

1. Enthusiasm

2. Disillusionment

3. Panic

4. Search for the guilty

5. Punishment of the innocent

6. Praise and honors for the non-participants

 

Soooo.......which one are we on? Some of them seem to be running together.🙃

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Im not going back to P3D or FSX Ever again . The day I removed both SSDs with FSX and P3D I went to my patio opened a beer and burned both SSDs . I was done with all the problems Suddenly I remembered the day i left my first Wife , i jumped on my H2 and drove the f away in any direction from her .   with that being said what ever the monthly fees are ill pay them , its 2020 people , I remember when ADOBE started the monthly Fees thing people/I complained and the next day I started paying best 30$ a month I spent for all the apps . 

Edited by rtodepart

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3 hours ago, Sesquashtoo said:

I don't have a Insider Subscript,  but read from one that claimed to.

Can you please post that source? Honestly, it is not very wise to read something that could be made-up (this is far from being the first case of blatant misinformation), and then posting it as a definite fact. The prices you quoted are for the monthly subscription of the Xbox Game Pass Ultimate and the Xbox Game Pass PC plans respectively, there is no way the simulator would have a subscription plan as costly as the same plans that will include it along with other games. Fairly sure that source misread the information (or decided to twist it to throw shade at the simulator), or you did.

And your attitude makes it look as if you have something to gain from Prepar3D v5 "flying off the shelves". Let's be honest, you'll be spending a lot more on Prepar3D and add-ons to make it look as good as Microsoft Flight Simulator than subscribing to it for several years.

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