How are you limiting your frame rate?

[Noel 4,499]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I tried the Nvidia Control Panel 30Hz option but default scenery was very stuttery when taxiing at default airports. Ridiculous when in that scenery I could get 80+ with no limitations.

Turned that option off and switched monitor refresh rate to 30Hz. Unlimited with VSync on and Triple Buffering enabled. Works much better now with no stutters at default airports. Used in P3D v3.4 and v4.5. Only downside is mouse action is a bit stuttery but I can live with that.

Ray, if you read my post--in a nutshell I can confirm, as an fan of the method you're describing, using Riva Tuner's scan line x/2, where x is your screen set at 60Hz, you will get the same performance it would appear from my recent test, so won't have mouse issues.  I don't see mouse problems at 30Hz but some do, but I use a wired mouse perhaps that makes a difference.  Only oddity is the main core is pretty much always at 100%, but that doesn't seem to be impacting the ability to maintain that 30fps.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Ray, if you read my post--in a nutshell I can confirm, as an fan of the method you're describing, using Riva Tuner's scan line x/2, where x is your screen set at 60Hz, you will get the same performance it would appear from my recent test, so won't have mouse issues.  I don't see mouse problems at 30Hz but some do, but I use a wired mouse perhaps that makes a difference.  Only oddity is the main core is pretty much always at 100%, but that doesn't seem to be impacting the ability to maintain that 30fps.

Okay Noel, I’ll search for Riva Tuner. I thought that had gone out with the ark. Haven’t used it in years. I use a wireless mouse.

[ShezA 176]

20 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Okay Noel, I’ll search for Riva Tuner. I thought that had gone out with the ark. Haven’t used it in years. I use a wireless mouse.

Just install the latest MSI Afterburner and it is auto-installed. I still use the venerable AlacrityPC to shut down processes and programs as per profile and the MSI AB / RTSS start with the profile. For the display of parameters on screen as per my screenshot above you will need to use AB.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

6 minutes ago, ShezA said:

Just install the latest MSI Afterburner and it is auto-installed. I still use the venerable AlacrityPC to shut down processes and programs as per profile and the MSI AB / RTSS start with the profile. For the display of parameters on screen as per my screenshot above you will need to use AB.

And just to confirm RT does not introduce micro stutters at default airports like NCP did?

[ShezA 176]

48 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And just to confirm RT does not introduce micro stutters at default airports like NCP did?

As with all tweaks it will be setup specific. Try it out and let us know. Works well for us, that is why we highlighted it. 🙂 But like others I did not like the 30Hz mouse issues so found this ideal for me.

Edited May 26, 2020 by ShezA

[Noel 4,499]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And just to confirm RT does not introduce micro stutters at default airports like NCP did?

Performance is identical to unlimited/vsync to 30Hz screen, at least in my two flights, one in the NGXu, and the other in the Maj Dash 8, and the monitor was at 60Hz.  So, yes, no micro or other stutters w/ RT.  I have been using RT but for monitoring CPU/GPU load and frame rate w/ its On Screen Display capability.  This is set up thru MSI Afterburner, i.e. what you want to monitor on the OSD, but RT itself as the scan line field--but you will need to go to the Settings GUI in RT and also choose Frame Rate Limiter or something like that, but you will of course continue to use vsync as the means to get to 30fps.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

16 minutes ago, Noel said:

Performance is identical to unlimited/vsync to 30Hz screen, at least in my two flights, one in the NGXu, and the other in the Maj Dash 8, and the monitor was at 60Hz.  So, yes, no micro or other stutters w/ RT. 

Then why is it one of the least used options? Just 4 people using it. If it solves the problem that NCP couldn’t why haven’t more switched?

[ShezA 176]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Then why is it one of the least used options? Just 4 people using it. If it solves the problem that NCP couldn’t why haven’t more switched?

That is why I brought it up and Bruce also wondered why it is not used. This was an older tweak and I guess has not been discussed much recently. It is widely known in many gaming forums.

[bbuckley 133]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Then why is it one of the least used options? Just 4 people using it. If it solves the problem that NCP couldn’t why haven’t more switched?

My guess is many people just don't want to install and run yet another add-on utility and elect to use features already installed.

21 minutes ago, Noel said:

but you will of course continue to use vsync as the means to get to 30fps.

@Noel this confuses me, and I think you said it earlier also. Why would you use vsync in P3D AND RTSS scanline sync x/2 (-1)? Just scanline sync x/2 will give you the 30fps result.

[Noel 4,499]

10 hours ago, ShezA said:

A lot has been written on the core balancing. I have always used Process Lasso and it perfectly balances the load across whatever cores I assign to P3D. Right now I am using HT on (it helps in overall PC fluidity for other programs) and in PL I use HT disabled specifically assigned only for P3D. So for my CPU PL assigns physical cores 0,2,4,6,8,10 to P3D and 1,3,5,7,9,11 to every other process. I don't use the Affinity Mask tweak.

I use Process Lasso, but only to retain affinity mask settings for various programs running.  Can you describe how to use PL to balance load for P3D LPs?

Actually, for both my  7 y/o 3930K and my new 9900K using unlimited + vsync + TB to a 30 Hz screen always more or less balances the load, I believe to the degree it can.  My understanding has been when you assign P3D to various cores/LPs the 'main thread' goes on to the first available your Affinity Mask allows, leaving the other assigned cores/LPs as terrain texture loaders.   And this is what I'm seeing using unlimited + vsync + TB to a 30 Hz screen:  main thread demand predictably goes up and down according to whatever puts demands on the main thread, and the texture loaders do the same--vary according to demand.   But again, w/ Riva Tuner's scan line vsync the main thread core/LP is nearly always at 100%.  What is unfortunate about this is you can't tell what sort of load the main thread is looking at since it's nearly always at 100%.  Whereas w/ vsync to 30Hz screen you can tell where you are, which helps in making a pre-flight adjustment as need for conditions.  You can't do that w/ Riva Tuner's approach unless I'm missing something.

It seems like what is implied in what you are saying about PL "perfectly balances load ..." is that PL can divide the MAIN thread's load across other cores/LPs than the one core it typically locks on to, and that is antithetical to everything I've ever heard, and why faster clockspeed in that core mattered the most at least in terms of main thread core performance.

[CaptKornDog 282]

RT gives me similar stutters to NCP or NVI, so you’re mileage may vary.  Both scanline and FPS cap in RT for v4.5.  RT shined for me in FSX and early v4 builds but has seemingly lost its benefit recently for me.

 

Again, I run windowed mode on a 144 Hz panel though.  While I still have stutters, most noticeable while panning, internal limiter at 48 FPS (1/3 of 144) seems to be my “best” currently.  Even setting my panel to 120 or 60 Hz appears to stutter more than 144.  I can’t really tell if there is any difference with VSync or TB.

 

Like I said above, smooth for me in between and I can maintain 30-40+ FPS in most scenarios with none of my cores at 100% load (with some Process Lasso help for programs outside of P3D, and AM=85 on my 7700K with HT on).  It’s just the noticeable stutter every few seconds that irritates me, particularly on short approach or flare.  It’s not really the sim freezing or hanging, maybe more of a visual artifact than anything; and happens even while I’m stationary, so I don’t think it’s a scenery loafing question.

Edited May 26, 2020 by CaptKornDog

[ShezA 176]

51 minutes ago, Noel said:

I use Process Lasso, but only to retain affinity mask settings for various programs running.  Can you describe how to use PL to balance load for P3D LPs?

Actually, for both my  7 y/o 3930K and my new 9900K using unlimited + vsync + TB to a 30 Hz screen always more or less balances the load, I believe to the degree it can.  My understanding has been when you assign P3D to various cores/LPs the 'main thread' goes on to the first available your Affinity Mask allows, leaving the other assigned cores/LPs as terrain texture loaders.   And this is what I'm seeing using unlimited + vsync + TB to a 30 Hz screen:  main thread demand predictably goes up and down according to whatever puts demands on the main thread, and the texture loaders do the same--vary according to demand.   But again, w/ Riva Tuner's scan line vsync the main thread core/LP is nearly always at 100%.  What is unfortunate about this is you can't tell what sort of load the main thread is looking at since it's nearly always at 100%.  Whereas w/ vsync to 30Hz screen you can tell where you are, which helps in making a pre-flight adjustment as need for conditions.  You can't do that w/ Riva Tuner's approach unless I'm missing something.

It seems like what is implied in what you are saying about PL "perfectly balances load ..." is that PL can divide the MAIN thread's load across other cores/LPs than the one core it typically locks on to, and that is antithetical to everything I've ever heard, and why faster clockspeed in that core mattered the most at least in terms of main thread core performance.

I have two profiles specifically for default and P3D with the only parameter changing being the CPU affinity.

For Default profile all processes are on full hyperthreaded CPU affinity (cores 0-11).

For P3D I have a profile which pushes all non-P3D processes to cores 1,3,5,7,9,11 and puts P3D on 0,2,4,6,8,10. The result is as below.

https://ibb.co/nc21bMv

Edited May 26, 2020 by ShezA

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

1 hour ago, bbuckley said:

My guess is many people just don't want to install and run yet another add-on utility and elect to use features already installed.

@Noel this confuses me, and I think you said it earlier also. Why would you use vsync in P3D AND RTSS scanline sync x/2 (-1)? Just scanline sync x/2 will give you the 30fps result.

I tend to agree. 64Mb consumed just to limit frame rates without micro stutters. However, once I had found my way around the tiny interface (why don’t they scale for UHD?) early results are encouraging. No stuttering at Alice Springs default with 4 Ai aircraft. NCP did cause them so that’s better.

Monitor resolution was 3840*2160 @60Hz and 30 and x2 was set in Riva Tuner and with the settings advised the fps stayed at 30 in P3D v4.5. I will need to have a few flights before I come to a final decision.

Core0 was maxed out when before it wasn’t. How that works out remains to be seen.

[ShezA 176]

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I tend to agree. 64Mb consumed just to limit frame rates without micro stutters. However, once I had found my way around the tiny interface (why don’t they scale for UHD?) early results are encouraging. No stuttering at Alice Springs default with 4 Ai aircraft. NCP did cause them so that’s better.

Monitor resolution was 3840*2160 @60Hz and 30 and x2 was set in Riva Tuner and with the settings advised the fps stayed at 30 in P3D v4.5. I will need to have a few flights before I come to a final decision.

Core0 was maxed out when before it wasn’t. How that works out remains to be seen.

I think use only scanline sync and leave the frame rate limiter at zero, it will automatically adjust to monitor refresh rate.

[Farlis 2,287]

There is one option missing in the poll:

Underclocking your CPU 

 

😉