What will become of ORBX?

[Soul Rebel 38]

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Honestly I can't wait for Microsoft to finally release their GAME so all these speculations finally get out of the way.

I would like to know your definition of Game and simulator @simbol

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Secondly All CURRENT simulators platforms are showing signs of continue and long plans for development and quiet frankly they are totally capable of providing similar or better results.

Yes, we saw it with the new ground textures of P3DV5, oh wait...

With the new "game" I will be able to simulate VFR flights out of the box without any third party scenery, with the other ones I can't.
For me, and my real job, It will be a good simulator even if the flight dynamics or all the systems are not as good as the real one. I can fly in VFR with real scenery and I will be able to familiarize with new areas before I go there in real life.

I go to three diferent full flight simulators every year and yes, they use P3D but only for the visuals, the flight dynamics are not from P3D @Rob_Ainscough

Edited May 29, 2020 by Soul Rebel

[simbol 5,816]

9 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

I would like to know your definition of Game and simulator

As I explained before, every person have different tastes.. IN MY VIEW although the difference between computer simulations and computer games can be very subtle they are very important. For me the distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience.

11 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

Yes, we saw it with the new ground textures of P3DV5, oh wait...

With the new "game" I will be able to simulate VFR flights out of the box without any third party scenery, with the other ones I can't.
For me, and my real job, It will be a good simulator even if the flight dynamics or all the systems are not as good as the real one. I can fly in VFR with real scenery and I will be able to familiarize with new areas before I go there in real life.

Wait for the new product to come out and use it.. this expectation that people will not need 3rd party scenery is coming from pure speculations from user to user base. Pay attention to the product specifications, there is definitely high details "areas" and I can't recall the exact number of cities, but it is not the "entire world"....

My current preference being an PPL student myself.. is to rather practice on P3D..

But this is me, please don't let my comments and opinions to rain in anybody parade, I would like to encourage people to get this new product and try it.. the important thing is to stop trashing other simulators because this is "coming sometime in the future", you guys need to try it for yourself and compare yourself.. all products have their merits, positives and negatives and people should use what they like more.

S.

 

 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

Just now, simbol said:

 The distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience.

 

 

 

How do you call a software giving the user a fun experience because it simulates well how systems behave ? this is exactly why I like flight simulation and why I fail to understand the distinction between the two categories.

[simbol 5,816]

7 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

How do you call a software giving the user a fun experience because it simulates well how systems behave ? this is exactly why I like flight simulation and why I fail to understand the distinction between the two categories.

This is my opinion Dominique.. it doesn't mean you or everyone else has to agree right? haha.

When you build a game you focus on giving fun to users without complications or making the game very difficult to use. When you build a simulator, you focus on building something to make behaviors ignoring if it is fun or not.. it is about the behavior of the system not you having fun with it. If you have fun in the process is up to you but that is not the objective when codding the software.

S.

Edited May 29, 2020 by simbol

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Simulation is about replicating the real world as accurately as possible. That's why the flight physics in Grand Theft Auto V are, er......not quite study level 😉 Of course, most flight simmers (yep, even the P3D users) are having fun 🙂

Edited May 29, 2020 by Christopher Low

[Dave Morgan 68]

Just jumping in to the end of this thread...

Don't think this is an inflammatory question but in the paper insert with the FS2004 discs, MS referred consistently to the FS as 'the game'. I guess that a simulator can be a game, and vice versa so perhaps the developer's vision is what really counts.

What do MS call their new flight sim?

[Murmur 3,941]

Good points.

E.g., from what I have seen so far, for me MSFS will be more of a SIM, able to realistically recreate (better than the competition) the most important aspects of flying sensations, namely scenery, lighting, weather, possibly certain aspects of flight and ground dynamics.

While e.g. P3D would be more of a GAME, good to have some fun playing an airline pilot while operating complex systems and not caring much for utmost realism in scenery, lighting, etc. compared to MSFS.

[HiFlyer 9,343]

Just now, Murmur said:

While e.g. P3D would be more of a GAME, good to have some fun playing an airline pilot while operating complex systems and not caring much for utmost realism in scenery, lighting, etc. compared to MSFS.

🙃

[Dominique_K 10,133]

Just now, simbol said:

This is my opinion Dominique.. it doesn't mean you or everyone else has to agree right? haha.

When you build a game you focus on giving fun to users without complications or making the game very difficult to use. When you build a simulator, you focus on building something to make behaviors ignoring if it is fun or not.. it is about the behavior of the system not you having fun with it. If you have fun in the process is up to you but that is not the objective when codding the software.

S.

That it was your opinion  was considered as granted 😀. You have the, or rather, a designer point of view, I have the/an user point of view. If you code well the "things" to make them as realistic as possible, you give me fun. If you  make them too easy to make them fun, I don't have much fun. Go figure. Your distinction doesn't apply to me or to many simmers. Which, in a way, is not unimportant 'cause we are the customers 😁.

 

[Nuno Pinto 1,394]

Right now, MSFS has zero interest to me as a simulation platform. Yeah incredible eye candy, but then we're back to X-Plane: Generally better graphism than P3D but all the rest is lacking here or there, seasons, airliners, etc.

It will be a long time before it actually passes P3D when we look at it as a whole simulation platform, so no immediate danger for ORBX, if any at all.

[Soul Rebel 38]

3 hours ago, simbol said:

As I explained before, every person have different tastes.. IN MY VIEW although the difference between computer simulations and computer games can be very subtle they are very important. For me the distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience.

Now It's clear for me, It's just your feeling that It's a game, but when you wrote it you did it in capital letters like it was something important.
In fact, I think that every game you play in a home computer is that, just a game. The difference is how you use that game, for me if you can simulate procedures and other things a game can be used as a simulator.

 

3 hours ago, simbol said:

 

Wait for the new product to come out and use it.. this expectation that people will not need 3rd party scenery is coming from pure speculations from user to user base. Pay attention to the product specifications, there is definitely high details "areas" and I can't recall the exact number of cities, but it is not the "entire world"....

 

I have seen plenty of images of the new game/sim and for my use I can assure you that I don't need any third party scenery, in fact, I don't need even realistic airports.

What I am completely sure is that if I want to use P3D to do the same I have to spend A LOT of money and I won't get the same level as I will get with the MSFS out of the box. And the worst part is there aren't any good scenery for the aere were I fly so I could only use ORBX global and LC Europe and I can asure you that it isn't good enough.

 

3 hours ago, simbol said:

 

But this is me, please don't let my comments and opinions to rain in anybody parade, I would like to encourage people to get this new product and try it.. the important thing is to stop trashing other simulators because this is "coming sometime in the future", you guys need to try it for yourself and compare yourself.. all products have their merits, positives and negatives and people should use what they like more.

Don't worry, you aren't raining in my parade. I have been flying in my computer since MFS98 and with MFS X y left it because I dind't see any big changes and got bored...until now, and like me several workmates. I was thinking to try again with P3Dv5 but I won't because you have to buy the game/sim and after that several third party addons that means a lot of money so at the moment for me the best thing is to wait for the new game/sim.

[simbol 5,816]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

is not unimportant 'cause we are the customers 😁

Indeed.. just to let you know I am also a flying sim user.. not just a developer.. I only became a developer upon customers demand as they wanted me to release solutions I did for my own simulator, a couple of times I shared pictures of these on AVSIM and  lots of people asked me privately if they could used them and I provided these, eventually I did a public freeware.. and after so many positive user feedback and so many people asking me privately to do more.. i thought oh right why not...

So my point of view is really as a simmer and as a developer. Anyway I really can't wait everyone to use this new product finally to get these long expectations and topics to an end once as for all lol.

Pictures and videos is not a good way to judge any game or simulator as you cannot ever get the feeling / immersion experience from watching those.. you need to use it yourself.. 

Have a good day.. everyone..

S.

[JensNJ66 5]

Why is it always sim OR game? Why can't it be both? What are "SimCity", "Truck Simulator", "Farming Simulator", "Goat Simulator" ... Ok, the last one is probably it's own category, but the point is, just because something is simulating a real world experience doesn't exclude it from being a game, but it also doesn't necessarily make it one.

As has been said before, the definition often depends on peoples opinion : How accurately does something have to depict the reality to be called a real simulator and not just a game. I feel like trying to make that distinction is only limiting yourself. I can learn a lot from playing a game and a simulator, like Flight Sim, can be a lot of fun and entertaining (Yes, P3D, I'm entertained). Most of us have different reasons to use a flight simulator and there is a large group that use it just as a hobby. And isn't a hobby mostly for entertainment? Or was it learning? Or both?

[JensNJ66 5]

Oh and back to the original topic, I don't think ORBX has anything to worry about and I don't think they do. The world is large and there will be plenty of airport, regions, models that can be or need to be improved, even in MSFS. I've done my own Photogrammetry, and while on smaller objects it can become indistinguishable from the real object, we're not in a position today to do that on a large scale. There will always be the need for hand crafted models. Only a limited number of airports and cities are of the high quality seen in the videos. What if I want Atlantic City, NJ in all it's "glory"? Maybe it's available, maybe not. But if not, then it's time some developer makes a nice rendition (ORBX, do you hear me?)

[Christopher Low 5,332]

I cannot argue that the multitude of impressive screenshots that I have seen of this game/simulator has made me think about the possibility of flying around the world in a small plane for the first time in a long time. I am very fussy where graphics are concerned these days, and the basic requirements for me to undertake such a challenge would be a good quality aircraft, terrain graphics of the quality seen in those screenshots that span the entire globe, and enough detailed airports/airfields to allow me to make the trip without having to land at a rubbish default version. That latter scenario would kill it stone dead for me.