Either QW787 or ASP3D is messing with the shader and setting

[Harvgordon 54]

Hi there,

 After 3 days of tuning, it's exhausting but finally I'm able to find the culprit of black death screen to P3D V5

If you have entered a black screen (but with engine sounds audible and menu clickable after loading a scenario), your shader and cfg files are corrupted by one of your add-ons.

If you have Add-on manger installed. Please take a look at this thread, it's recommended to follow the instructions provided in this thread.

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=15721.0

Since QW787 is titled inside the Add-on manger, I tried this workaround first.

To solve this problem (Will deactivate all of your add-ons so it requires a re-installation).

1. Run "Delete Generated Files" inside the Prepar3D v5 directory as administrator (Debugging steps suggested by LM).

2. Empty the "Prepar3D v5 Files" and "Prepar3D v5 Add-ons" folders.

3. Repair your Client and Content installation (right click the msi).

4. Run Prepar3D.exe to let the program build the shader and config files.

5. You will see the black screen is gone.

6. Re-install your add-ons one by one, after a single installation run P3D to check if the issue appears again.

 

Now, after repeating these steps several times. I found ASP3D or QW787 is causing the issue.

Since ASP3D is in open beta and no support is provided. I will report this issue to their forum.

 

I didn't find a valid solution to solve the issue permanently. The only way to avoid the issue is do not install these two plugins together.

I will upload a video to show this later.

Hope this thread help people encountering the same issue as I did.

 

Cheers,

G

[radorabatin 24]

Hello,

I use both, and no issues.

 

Rado

[virtuali 4,421]

I think you must have confused the old QW757 for FS9 and FSX, which USED to be listed in the FSDT Addon Manager, and made some kind of connection between the FSDT Addon Manager and QW787, which was never related to it.

Not that this has anything to do with the subject, which discussed resetting shaders whenever you have problems that might seem related to them, and it's a solution that is always worth trying, even if it's totally unrelated to the FSDT Addon Manager

Edited May 25, 2020 by virtuali

[Harvgordon 54]

17 hours ago, virtuali said:

I think you must have confused the old QW757 for FS9 and FSX, which USED to be listed in the FSDT Addon Manager, and made some kind of connection between the FSDT Addon Manager and QW787, which was never related to it.

Not that this has anything to do with the subject, which discussed resetting shaders whenever you have problems that might seem related to them, and it's a solution that is always worth trying, even if it's totally unrelated to the FSDT Addon Manager

I mistaken QW757 with QW787. I appologize for that.

I managed QW787 to work after installing DDU then install the beta version of AMD drivers. However the black screen come back when the HDR is unchecked.

However, I have a new CTD issue related to FSDT Addon Manager according to Event Viewer. Please take a look.

Faulting application name: Couatl.exe, version: 3.2.0.4336, time stamp: 0x5eb5643c
Faulting module name: ucrtbase.dll, version: 10.0.18362.815, time stamp: 0xbea5fce0
Exception code: 0xc0000409
Fault offset: 0x0009e6eb
Faulting process ID: 0x3078
Faulting application start time: 0x01d632fdb7959836
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl\Couatl.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\ucrtbase.dll
Report ID: 4fb172b1-f07b-4f8d-bcb7-7a75b41cb2dd
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 

 

I have already added FSDT Addon Manager folder in the exclusion list of Windows Defender.

 

[Harvgordon 54]

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Error
Date:          5/25/2020 9:41:16 PM
Event ID:      1000
Task Category: (100)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      DESKTOP-CQHJPB1
Description:
Faulting application name: Couatl.exe, version: 3.2.0.4336, time stamp: 0x5eb5643c
Faulting module name: ucrtbase.dll, version: 10.0.18362.815, time stamp: 0xbea5fce0
Exception code: 0xc0000409
Fault offset: 0x0009e6eb
Faulting process ID: 0x3078
Faulting application start time: 0x01d632fdb7959836
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl\Couatl.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\ucrtbase.dll
Report ID: 4fb172b1-f07b-4f8d-bcb7-7a75b41cb2dd
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Application Error" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">1000</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>100</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2020-05-26T01:41:16.750387900Z" />
    <EventRecordID>637</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>DESKTOP-CQHJPB1</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>Couatl.exe</Data>
    <Data>3.2.0.4336</Data>
    <Data>5eb5643c</Data>
    <Data>ucrtbase.dll</Data>
    <Data>10.0.18362.815</Data>
    <Data>bea5fce0</Data>
    <Data>c0000409</Data>
    <Data>0009e6eb</Data>
    <Data>3078</Data>
    <Data>01d632fdb7959836</Data>
    <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl\Couatl.exe</Data>
    <Data>C:\WINDOWS\System32\ucrtbase.dll</Data>
    <Data>4fb172b1-f07b-4f8d-bcb7-7a75b41cb2dd</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>

Edited May 26, 2020 by Harvgordon

[Harvgordon 54]

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Error
Date:          5/25/2020 9:41:16 PM
Event ID:      1000
Task Category: (100)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      DESKTOP-CQHJPB1
Description:
Faulting application name: Couatl.exe, version: 3.2.0.4336, time stamp: 0x5eb5643c
Faulting module name: ucrtbase.dll, version: 10.0.18362.815, time stamp: 0xbea5fce0
Exception code: 0xc0000409
Fault offset: 0x0009e6eb
Faulting process ID: 0x3078
Faulting application start time: 0x01d632fdb7959836
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl\Couatl.exe
Faulting module path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\ucrtbase.dll
Report ID: 4fb172b1-f07b-4f8d-bcb7-7a75b41cb2dd
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Application Error" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="0">1000</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>100</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2020-05-26T01:41:16.750387900Z" />
    <EventRecordID>637</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>DESKTOP-CQHJPB1</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>Couatl.exe</Data>
    <Data>3.2.0.4336</Data>
    <Data>5eb5643c</Data>
    <Data>ucrtbase.dll</Data>
    <Data>10.0.18362.815</Data>
    <Data>bea5fce0</Data>
    <Data>c0000409</Data>
    <Data>0009e6eb</Data>
    <Data>3078</Data>
    <Data>01d632fdb7959836</Data>
    <Data>C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl\Couatl.exe</Data>
    <Data>C:\WINDOWS\System32\ucrtbase.dll</Data>
    <Data>4fb172b1-f07b-4f8d-bcb7-7a75b41cb2dd</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>

[virtuali 4,421]

2 hours ago, Harvgordon said:

However, I have a new CTD issue related to FSDT Addon Manager according to Event Viewer. Please take a look.

Related doesn't mean caused. As explained so many times, Couatl is an external .EXE so it CANNOT, by definition, cause the sim to CTD, it's simply not possible, only a .DLL can bring down the sim, but external .EXEs simply cannot access any other application address space, unless they attached to the app as a debugger, and I assure you we don't do anything like that.

What is possible ( and likely ) instead, is your simulator crashed for ANOTHER reason and, because it crashed abruptly, it couldn't send the normal "Quit" message from Simconnect to all the opened addons, which is always supposed to do when it quits cleanly.

This likely made Couatl crash because, if it doesn't receive that command, it might not able to call its own clean-up and it could even be in the middle of a Simconnect connection to the sim, which was closed abruptly by the sim crashing for other reason.

Of course, there's a way to verify this, and it's looking at the TIMESTAMP of other nearby events in the Events Viewer.

Do you see a crash event related to the sim itself ? If yes, check the timestamp: is it EARLIER than the Couatl crash event ? If yes, that's your proof the simulator CAUSED Couatl to crash, not the other way around.

Edited May 26, 2020 by virtuali

[cyyzrwy24 127]

2 hours ago, virtuali said:

However, I have a new CTD issue related to FSDT Addon Manager according to Event Viewer. Please take a look.

I can confirm the same....only CTD I had so far with V5 is with QW787 and GSX...weather GSX2 itself or anything to do with FSDT. I tested and three times in a row at same place I got CTD. Posted here on AVSIM and got buried without a comment also on FSDT forum and no answer as of last weeks. 747 works fine...

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

I would love nothing more than to clobber my friend Umberto (wink, grin!  Will miss seeing you in June brother), but I'm steadily with him on this so I'll have to find something different to clobber him with!  LOL!

 

 

[virtuali 4,421]

3 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

I can confirm the same....only CTD I had so far with V5 is with QW787 and GSX...weather GSX2 itself or anything to do with FSDT. I tested and three times in a row at same place I got CTD.

This kind of reasoning seem like that old joke that says something like this:

"I drank vodka with water and I got drunk, so I tried whiskey with water and I also got drunk, so I tried brandy with water and I also got drunk...IT MUST BE THE WATER"

 

Quote

747 works fine...

There's your proof GSX has nothing to do with that CTD.

If it was GSX, it would have randomly crashed with any airplane. Now, I don't know about your precise "CTD", but from the OP it was clearly video-card and shader-related so, again, in addition to the basic fact GSX CANNOT crash the sim, you get additional evidence it cannot possibly be GSX ?

Why ? Because, of course, the ONLY thing GSX that in P3D V4 *could* possibly crash the sim, which was the Render To Texture that uses DX11, it's precisely the thing that in P3D V5 ( not in Couatl, that would be the Addon Manager, since only a .DLL can use DirectX and only a .DLL can crash the sim ) is completely disabled. It's not just code skipped, the V5 .DLL doesn't have *any* DirectX code at all, because we still need to rewrite that part in DX12 so, as of today, nothing in GSX interacts directly with the video card.

Funny thing is, we decided to wait until P3D V5 is entirely stable, for the precise reason of NOT to be accused of "crashing the sim with your fancy DX code", which was the thing that could *potentially* crash the sim in V4. Not that it did, of course, but it could. In V5, it just can't, the V5 version of the Addon Manager .DLL ( which is a different file than the V4 version ) is not even connected and linked with DirectX.

And, as explained so many times already, NOTHING in the only part of our software that can theoretically crash the sim, does ANY of the dangerous things that can cause a CTD, because since P3D V3, we don't do any memory access, we don't use any undocumented calls, we don't change any memory in the simulator process and the clear proof of this is we are not dependent on the simulator build.

Do you have other add-ons that require an update each time a new Hotfix is out ? If yes, it means that any of these has a much higher chance to cause a CTD, because accessing memory directly might not always be safe, and using undocumented calls is risky.

Of course, if your problem is "just" a generic VRAM exhaustion issue, it's very possible that, if you are close to your VRAM limit, and you call GSX, the simulator might not have enough RAM to load the GSX vehicles that has just been called. But that's of course hardly GSX's fault: you should never put yourself in a situation in which adding just a few vehicles would consume all the remaining VRAM. If you are, it means your settings were already too high.

 

[B777ER 2,486]

Umberto, I have not heard that joke before but I hope you don't mind I'm stealing it. LOL

[cyyzrwy24 127]

2 hours ago, virtuali said:

This kind of reasoning seem like that old joke that says something like this:

"I drank vodka with water and I got drunk, so I tried whiskey with water and I also got drunk, so I tried brandy with water and I also got drunk...IT MUST BE THE WATER"

 

There's your proof GSX has nothing to do with that CTD.

If it was GSX, it would have randomly crashed with any airplane. Now, I don't know about your precise "CTD", but from the OP it was clearly video-card and shader-related so, again, in addition to the basic fact GSX CANNOT crash the sim, you get additional evidence it cannot possibly be GSX ?

Why ? Because, of course, the ONLY thing GSX that in P3D V4 *could* possibly crash the sim, which was the Render To Texture that uses DX11, it's precisely the thing that in P3D V5 ( not in Couatl, that would be the Addon Manager, since only a .DLL can use DirectX and only a .DLL can crash the sim ) is completely disabled. It's not just code skipped, the V5 .DLL doesn't have *any* DirectX code at all, because we still need to rewrite that part in DX12 so, as of today, nothing in GSX interacts directly with the video card.

Funny thing is, we decided to wait until P3D V5 is entirely stable, for the precise reason of NOT to be accused of "crashing the sim with your fancy DX code", which was the thing that could *potentially* crash the sim in V4. Not that it did, of course, but it could. In V5, it just can't, the V5 version of the Addon Manager .DLL ( which is a different file than the V4 version ) is not even connected and linked with DirectX.

And, as explained so many times already, NOTHING in the only part of our software that can theoretically crash the sim, does ANY of the dangerous things that can cause a CTD, because since P3D V3, we don't do any memory access, we don't use any undocumented calls, we don't change any memory in the simulator process and the clear proof of this is we are not dependent on the simulator build.

Do you have other add-ons that require an update each time a new Hotfix is out ? If yes, it means that any of these has a much higher chance to cause a CTD, because accessing memory directly might not always be safe, and using undocumented calls is risky.

Of course, if your problem is "just" a generic VRAM exhaustion issue, it's very possible that, if you are close to your VRAM limit, and you call GSX, the simulator might not have enough RAM to load the GSX vehicles that has just been called. But that's of course hardly GSX's fault: you should never put yourself in a situation in which adding just a few vehicles would consume all the remaining VRAM. If you are, it means your settings were already too high.

 

Umberto, you don't need to convince me into anything really...I am just describing what happened at exactly same point. Wether GSX or FSDT or AddOnManager or any other force known to human kind crushed at my SIM at a same time, I really wouldn't know. Also I don't believe in coincidence either. I also  don't believe in Event Viewer in terms of CTD with FSX/P3D, since that never proved anything. I found it useless and waste of time since nobody could decipher it with any certainty. 

Furthermore, you, among all people in this community,  do not have to be defensive at all. You were the first one who made V5 compatible AddOn for us to enjoy really nice realistic immersion off real life airline operation and I thank you for that. And I am great believer in all products coming out off your kitchen.

Yesterday I tried first time again and nothing happened, but it wasn't after initial push off the gate. 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by cyyzrwy24