Good Framerates - major stutters / pauses

[SorensenDK 1]

@GSalden Looks very nice!! I already am running 30 hz / unlimited and VSync on. Could try 24 - 25 hz aswell, as the projectors runs that as well, but dont think it will help, as I dont have problems sustaining the 30 FPS, so FPS is not the problems - but rather texture cashing/loading.

@Ianrivaldosmith No one is contradicting that P3D genreally suffers from these problems - and it actually sad that after almost 15 years, we are still spending our time trying to get a flight simulator to run fluidly.  But some people are having their simulator run better than others and have found a way to minimize stutters - and this comes down to hardware and settings, although noone have found the excat recipe.I guess we can just wait and hope this will be the case with MS2020, and afterwards fianlly get rid of FSX/P3D and its outddated graphics engine.... 

/Bjarne

 

[Mace 1,896]

4 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Spot on, the problem is the software. The mirage of endless ‘solutions’ in here comical. 

So why is it that I too, do not suffer from these problems? 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

16 minutes ago, Mace said:

So why is it that I too, do not suffer from these problems? 

Perhaps you’re one of these people running at a very painful 30fps or below? Or, perhaps you’ve found the holy grail? 

[Mace 1,896]

Just now, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Perhaps you’re one of these people running at a very painful 30fps or below? Or, perhaps you’ve found the holy grail? 

I guess I've found the holy grail then?  Are you really here to help and assist the OP?  That is the purpose of this thread, not to dig on a sim.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

5 minutes ago, Mace said:

I guess I've found the holy grail then?  Are you really here to help and assist the OP?  That is the purpose of this thread, not to dig on a sim.

One apologies for having an opinion. 

[GSalden 4,653]

6 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

One apologies for having an opinion. 

You claim that the software is to blaim while there are others that have a smooth sim.

Reading what you wrote it seems that your stutters might come from running a too high monitor frequency icw your settings.

If I run my 2x 4K setup at 30 hertz it runs very well, but if I run it at 60 hertz my screens turn pink and the scenery is terrible to look at. 

Running a graphics card at 60 hertz or 30 hertz makes a big difference in load ( and breathing space in general ). 

[Christopher Low 5,325]

There is nothing "painful" about 30fps in a flight simulator. That is more than smooth enough.

[SorensenDK 1]

@Mace Could you share some information on your setup, setting, add on etc? Could be interresting to compare to a system that does not suffer from stutters. And do you experience a FPS loss over time, so that when flying from A to B, and landing at B gives you less FPS at that airport than if you would depart from there?

Again, it is no so much about FPS, I have "plenty" of those, but a question of that even though you have good FPS, the sim still makes the stutters/pauses. I tried setting all sliders to the right, and flew with 12 - 15 frames, and then you dont notice the stutters, because it somehow runs more consistant (if that gives any sense?). I will now reinstall P3D completely again, and start all over without any kind of add-ons and dig a little deeper.

Question: Do you think ORBX Global textures could have a negative effect on texture loading? I found out that if I reduce the texture resolution, it becomes much better.

Any advise are ofcourse still welcome - THX!

/Bjarne

 

[JoeFackel 760]

11 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

A quick google search will show you a decade worth of posts relating to stutters and hitches and whatever else you want to call them. They exist, and they are prevalent.

Of course they exist. They exist for people who set their settings based on their expectations and they don't exist for people who set their settings based on the capabilites of their hardware.

[Pete Dowson 558]

2 hours ago, SorensenDK said:

Again, it is no so much about FPS, I have "plenty" of those, but a question of that even though you have good FPS, the sim still makes the stutters/pauses.

On the contrary, it is about FPS. If the Sim is spending most of the time generating new views to match the higher FPS it has less time to load textures, so stutters are then introduced when it tries to catch up with those texture loads.

So it is better to limit the rate of new view generation to something less than the FPS you can always achieve (i.e. in all circumstances). The frame rate limiter in P3D is not good for that. It is best to use VSync (or an external limiter -- but with multiple 3D windows, as with 3 projectors with 3D windows, those external limiters seem to get confused).

30 fps limited via VSync for 30Hz Projectors should be fine for all simulator needs.

I tend to like my P3D overloaded with loads of AI and heavy scenery (lots of autogen, and distant views of it all). In order to cope with all that i reduced my projectors to 25Hz. 25 fps is all I can manage in any case at a busy EGLL with True Earth GB South and with P3D settings I am happy with.

Pete

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Pete Dowson

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Load of tosh. They implemented the VRR checkbox for a reason. 30HZ is headache inducing and painful on the eyes. Run a sim at 100 fps and then at 30 and tell me you cant notice a difference? Of course there is a MASSIVE difference. This isn't 2005 anymore. 

 

@GSalden Thats your monitor changing colours as the frequency changes, thats your monitors problem. (And a know problem/issue/setting on some monitors). I also had that on an ACER, upgraded to an LG with better specs and the issue was gone. 

@Christopher Low I beg to differ. 30FPS is painful. Go ahead and try a good VRR monitor at 60+ FPS and see for yourself. It is simply much nicer and smoother at 60+ fps, and the feeling of flight actually starts to exist. 

@JoeFackel Rubbish. I am on a VERY high end system, top of the range. If I place ALL of the P3DV5 sliders at minimum, the sim is still OLD. It still has problems with ground textures morphing (try Madeira full default sim with low sliders and see for yourself). It stutters and chugs along.  It is not designed for modern architecture. Sure it might have been switched to DX12, however it is STILL the same old sim engine, that stutters and morphs along. Go check out P3Dv% forum over at LM and see for yourself! It's like putting a new Porsche engine in an old Ford Galaxy. 

I am not sure why some of you get so defensive? You are all using decades old technology, and then defending the indefensible. Yes, P3Dv5 can be a good looking sim, I am not disputing that. Yes it is very complex, I am not disputing that. What I am saying is, that in 2020 we should not be running screens at 30HZ to get a game/sim to perform. Its insane quite frankly. (and YES it can be done, look at other sims, that I wont mention here) And YES, I am a paying customer, and this is a public forum, so I am entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it, scroll on by. 

 

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=138180 <<< This in 2020! Just one example of MANY. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ianrivaldosmith

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

When you look at a computer monitor, you’re not seeing a single, static image. What you’re actually seeing is the same image, refreshed many times per second—creating the illusion that your screen is smooth. If you’re using an older monitor, you may notice it flickering slightly. What you’re seeing is a refresh rate so low that your human eyes are taking notice. This is very typical at the frequencies of 59 Hz and 60 Hz, the latter being the most commonly used refresh rate in laptops and LCD (flat-screen) monitors.

A higher refresh rate means a smoother-looking screen that is easier on the eyes. For the average financial advisor dealing with eye strain, a refresh rate of 120 Hz is optimal. There is absolutely no need to pursue those high-end 144 Hz or 240 Hz monitors you’ve seen on Amazon or at Best Buy. Unless you’re doing heavy gaming or video watching/editing, you will most likely not be able to see the difference between 120 Hz and anything higher. With that said, try using a 120 Hz screen for a few hours and then switch back to a 60 Hz one. The difference between the two is so palpable that your eyes will start to strain almost immediately.

[GSalden 4,653]

15 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Load of tosh. They implemented the VRR checkbox for a reason. 30HZ is headache inducing and painful on the eyes. Run a sim at 100 fps and then at 30 and tell me you cant notice a difference? Of course there is a MASSIVE difference. This isn't 2005 anymore. 

 

@GSalden Thats your monitor changing colours as the frequency changes, thats your monitors problem. (And a know problem/issue/setting on some monitors). I also had that on an ACER, upgraded to an LG with better specs and the issue was gone. 

@Christopher Low I beg to differ. 30FPS is painful. Go ahead and try a good VRR monitor at 60+ FPS and see for yourself. It is simply much nicer and smoother at 60+ fps, and the feeling of flight actually starts to exist. 

@JoeFackel Rubbish. I am on a VERY high end system, top of the range. If I place ALL of the P3DV5 sliders at minimum, the sim is still OLD. It still has problems with ground textures morphing (try Madeira full default sim with low sliders and see for yourself). It stutters and chugs along.  It is not designed for modern architecture. Sure it might have been switched to DX12, however it is STILL the same old sim engine, that stutters and morphs along. Go check out P3Dv% forum over at LM and see for yourself! It's like putting a new Porsche engine in an old Ford Galaxy. 

I am not sure why some of you get so defensive? You are all using decades old technology, and then defending the indefensible. Yes, P3Dv5 can be a good looking sim, I am not disputing that. Yes it is very complex, I am not disputing that. What I am saying is, that in 2020 we should not be running screens at 30HZ to get a game/sim to perform. Its insane quite frankly. (and YES it can be done, look at other sims, that I wont mention here) And YES, I am a paying customer, and this is a public forum, so I am entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it, scroll on by. 

 

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=138180 <<< This in 2020! Just one example of MANY. 

In my case you are incorrect ; when connecting only 1x 4K display no issues. It simply is too much for the graphics card driving 2x 4K in 60 hertz.

And 30 FPS is also not painful ; all my vids have been recorded at 25 hertz and no one has ever noticed it. Even all the people regurlarly coming to watch my setup have never mentioned it. 
It simply is your opinion that it has to be 59/60 or more...

Also morphing ground textures I only see occasionally and I have set mesh to 5m. Using FTX 2018 and flying over the Alps.

It is al about balance between your hardware and software. Nothing more...  No magic tricks.

And I have never had CTD’s or OOMs..

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by GSalden

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 minute ago, GSalden said:

 

And 30 FPS is also not painful ; all my vids are recording P3D at 25 hertz and no one has ever noticed it. Even all the people regurlarly coming to watch my setup have never mentioned it. 
It simply is your opinion ...

 

 

Thats because they're watching them back on high hertz screens probably. I for one am watching them back at 160HTZ. I don't see your 30htz. 

[GSalden 4,653]

51 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Thats because they're watching them back on high hertz screens probably. I for one am watching them back at 160HTZ. I don't see your 30htz. 

You are looking at 25 FPS + 25 hertz. That doesn’t change when looking at the vids on higher frequency display... 

Otherwise I would put those displays on the ground , put a camera in front of them and stream them on 144+ hertz displays ... 😆