IFR platform with proper needles ?

[jon b 2,041]

Hello.

 I’m after something with a realistic flight model,  a comprehensive steam driven analogue IFR suite with HSI & RMI and have high performance,something in approach category C or D, so most likely airliner / military category,but would consider something more sedate,to try and keep my brain active during lockdown.

Here’s the crucial thing though ... it has to have proper needles. By that I mean ILS deviations should be smooth and imperceptible rather than the unrealistic segmented movements that are standard in P3D and pretty much have been since FS95. It really spoils the immersion as real instruments just don’t act like that.

I’ve found good examples of realistic deviation needles which I believe have to be custom coded on all of A2A’s fleet and also the Milviz PC6. They’re all cracking aircraft but a little slow for what I’m after.

Sadly the models of real world IFR training platforms which you would think would be perfect for IFR practice are let down by these notched needles, for example the JF Dutches and MV310 and T38A

The upcoming JF A300 and 146 agin would be perfect but I suspect they too will have notched needles. 

I could use X-plane I guess which seems to have smooth needles as standard but I’m really after something in P3D.

Any body have any suggestions ?

many thanks, stay safe and all that 

[richjb2 195]

Hi Jon,

Might I suggest these two:

1. CoolSky DC-9:  No FMS with this airplane.  It's all basic steam gauge  technology,  The cockpit detailing is very good, with a 4K texture option available for an additional cost, that is if the McPhat UDT cockpit texture pack is still available. 

2. X-Treame Prototypes Lear 25:  As a former LR-Jet pilot and instructor, I'm very happy with this add-on.  it's one of the more accurate add-ons.  A few differences, some on purpose to address unique autopilot operation and one or two that that don't quite match the real airplane, but by in large it represents the airplane well.  Further, with a decent rig you can get pretty good frame rates even with ORBIX So Cal and ASN injecting weather.  Add an add-on GTN 750 from F1 or RXP and you realistic option for both worlds.  This is fast becoming my go-to sim for keeping proficient while ground due to COVID.   They are about to release V3.0, but the current V2.x will for an upgrade.

LM C130 default aircraft in P3D is also a pretty good sim for basic instrument flying. 

Hope this helps,

Rich Boll

Wichita KS

[SAS443 1,716]

Does simcheck A300 work for 64bit prepar3d? It was a terrific analogue cockpit airliner back in the days...

[Chock 17,769]

You might want to take a look at the most recent versions of Lionheart's Bellanca Viking for P3D. Being that it is only 2,217lbs (which is about 300 lbs less than a Bonanza) but has a turbocharged 300hp engine, the Viking is fairly fast for a GA single .

But regardless of performance, the reason I'm suggesting it, is that unlike most recent P3D add-ons, it has 2D gauges which are easily swapped out for others, rather than 3D gauges which are part of the model. This was done deliberately to allow users to switch out gauges to their own preference, so you could put any gauge you particularly wanted into the thing.

If on the other hand you want a faster GA which is good for IFR practice/training with realistically simulated systems, the FlySimWare Cessna C441 Conquest II is definitely worth a look. The 441 makes a great IFR trainer: It cruises at 300 mph, can get up to 35,000 feet and has a 2,400+ fpm rate of climb, so it is well suited to doing IFR procedures which could have more demanding mandatory rates of climb than a little single GA might manage.

[ARCO 245]

Perhaps you want to take a look at the https://secure.simmarket.com/flysimware-falcon-50.phtml which is a fast, agile, steam-gauged IFR business plane (or the Learjet from the same developer). Now if you are after a good and professional IFR trainer (although you mention only P3D and X Plane), visit the Elite site, you will find the precision you are looking for, and hours you can log (if that is what you want).

 

Jean-Claude

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jean-Claude

[jon b 2,041]

Thank a lot for the suggestions there gentlemen.

A good selection and in fact in my quest for an IFR platform I’ve already purchased the flysimware conquest and Lear 35, and the xtreme prototypes Lear 25,  all of which sadly have the same notched HSI needles.

I’m holding out hope that version 3 of xtreme prototype’s Lear May have custom navigation needles.

I keep toying with the idea of elite but never quite get there.

Thanks again, I know it’s just a small thing (probably) for most people but it just bugs me and spoils the immersion for me seeing the glide and localiser needles click over in low resolution degree increments rather than moving smoothly.

As I mentioned the A2A fleet and the milviz PC6 all have a  realistic smooth action to their navigation instruments. I use the milviz T38A for shooting ILS approaches but that too has a notchy HSI , I’m just wondering if now milviz have started using higher resolution HSIs like with their newer PC6 if they’ve upgraded the HSI in the T38A redux? 

Anyway not to worry, I’m sure one day they’ll let me near a real aeroplane again , I’m just hoping my brain is still going to be up to it.

[Chock 17,769]

Well, if you're gonna have to go with A2A then that's no bad thing. Personally I think their A2A Commanche is the best flyer you can get for FSX and P3D.

[jon b 2,041]

Yes that’s certainly my favourite in the A2A fleet it’s a cracker, I can’t seem to get on with the bonanza for some reason. i’ll Just have to fly the Comanche flat out !

Rich - I forgot to say I checked out the DC9 on YouTube, thanks. Sadly a notchy HSI again , a shame because that looked perfect. 

[mtr75 653]

Alabeo Seminole with the G600 package is pretty darn realistic. I use it for IFR training. 

[ryanbatc 12,820]

Aside from the A2A Bonazna (with the 310hp engine you could be in cat c if you wanted haha) I can't think of a plane that would match your expectations.  Tried the Majestic Q400?  Yeah glass but it will keep you on your toes.  I'd say Milviz B350i but again glass.  You could still fly the needles in either of those products.

I know you mentioned XP11.  What's keeping you from going that avenue?  The Airfoillabs king air 350 would be perfect for what you want (though it does have the old collins EADI and EHSI but otherwise analogue.)

I don't really see the instruments in P3D as too bad....I fly a lot with a friend and frequently I fly using the instruments for practice and maybe that's why, but I can't really tell a difference.  The principles are the same in the sim and the the real world. 

If I were you I'd get the a2a bonanza and fly the entire approach at 160 kias.

[jon b 2,041]

Thanks Ryan. 

Yes I’ve got the majestic dash 8, a very nice plane, I’ve just not got around to learning how to fly it yet !

When I’m after some glass cockpit IFR time  I usually go with the PMDG 747on raw data , flight director off, that’s my real world aircraft. Or at least it was until a few weeks ago..

As you say I can go back to x-plane , the needles seem fluid on that platform as standard, I had been using the Just flight hawk for ILS work.

I’ve just got my 4.5 P3D running red hot at the moment and like most of us I guess go through periods of which platform they prefer that week. I just happen to be in a P3D phase at the moment and so was looking for something smooth to fly there.

I must be developing lockdown OCD because those clicky low resolution nav needles really spoil it for me. It’s all very well developers spending hours on custom coded electric systems that people don’t notice and meanwhile their  primarily flight instruments which you spend a lot of time staring are left as standard and behave quite unrealistically.

Anyway, it’s probably just me.I just though there might have been something out there that I’d missed but it doesn’t look like there is so I’ll quietly wait for the A2A twin or military trainer to arrive!

cheers

 

[Chock 17,769]

3 hours ago, jon b said:

I’ll quietly wait for the A2A twin or military trainer to arrive!

https://a2asimulations.com/product/accu-sim-t-6-texan-p3d/

[jon b 2,041]

Ah yes but HSI or RMI , my analogue skills aren’t THAT good any more 🙂

The Texan 2 was more along what I was thinking ,if they ever release that one.

[ryanbatc 12,820]

Yeah I too was hoping for the TEX2!  The T6 is kinda slow anyway lol

[Mace 1,902]

2 hours ago, jon b said:

Ah yes but HSI or RMI , my analogue skills aren’t THAT good any more 🙂

The Texan 2 was more along what I was thinking ,if they ever release that one.

 

32 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

Yeah I too was hoping for the TEX2!  The T6 is kinda slow anyway lol

Right on!  I have been hoping A2A would go ahead with the Texan II for a long time, but so far...no dice.  I think they don't have all the Accu-Sim bits with it and they're reluctant to release it because of that.  They ought to release it as their lower-line of simulations, I can't remember what it's called.

If not the Texan II, then an Embraer Tucano or something similar.  Just the idea of a turboprop fighter-esque airplane sounds fun.