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Quasimodo

How does this look at 24hz

24hz video  

5 members have voted

  1. 1. how does this Video look on your Display at 24hz

    • Smooth and fluid
      3
    • Smooth but with ghosting
      2


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If you display can do 24hz please set it to 24hz and watch thing video and let me know how it looked.

Its 4K so it might take a while to be available in 4K

 

Edited by Quasimodo

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I can't do 24hz but what a nice video! Quality of the image is excellent. Thanks for sharing. JJ

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24 FPS will always look terrible but whatever lifts your wings, I guess.

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4 hours ago, Chapstick said:

24 FPS will always look terrible

I guess on your Display it will but not on all displays. Mine for example!😁 On mine apart form some unrelated to refresh rate stutters its perfectly smooth and fluid. I wanted to determine who see's excessive ghosting and who doesn't. For anyone who doesn't maybe they can list there display make and model. I'm inclined to think that those using HDTVs or 4K TV's might have a better experience with this than those using PC monitors. Since Many TV's apparently  have a smoothing filter for 24hz. My display is a 55" Samsung NU6900. With the refresh rate set to 24hz in NCP and Game mode off in the TV settings this video plays back perfectly smoothly and fluidly on the screen. Except when the the panning rate is too fast. Then micro stutters ensue. I wanted to determine based on poll results if it was worth posting 4K videos at 24fps to my Youtube channel

Edited by Quasimodo

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You can not compare 24 fps in a simulator with 24 fps in film. Film is creating a distinct look using a shutter speed doubling the frame rate to create motion blur. We don't have that in the flight sim world, which makes the images look more "flickery".

I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, since if you like it or not is very subjective, but you can't compare it. That's also why motion has a much bigger effect that some people can tolerate less than others.

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5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

It's really about motion management.

So for motion management I am using TrackiR5 smoothing set to 50 with precision tracking. That's not enough! I am also using EZCA3 addition motion smoothing set to about 700. It goes higher than that but I really becomes aware of the the camera lagging behind my head movement above that. The trick is to make slower head movement.

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Some TV's apparently have filters that smooth out ghosting. I can watch that video on the Samsung NU6900 and unless I move my head to fast the image stays smooth and fluid but If i watch it on the much older Samsung 1080p TV in the living room set to 24hz its does look terrible.

But also leads me to another question about traffic refresh rate in FSX/P3D because one thing I noticed is that AI traffic in general seems to be to my eye on my display more fluid at 24hz/fps than it does at 30hz/fps. Which makes me wonder are the positions of AI traffic updated 24 times per second by the sim all the time no mater what the frame rate?

Edited by Quasimodo

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21 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Why not, virtual camera or real camera ... they're operating at 24 fps captures.  In both sim and real world the motion can be "managed" so as to make it tolerable and in some cases "artistic".  It's really about motion management.

Cheers, Rob.

The shutter speed is different. If you look at 24fps films where the shutter was not open for half of the frame length then it looks different than if it's done properly. That's why a lot of cell phone videos don't look as good, even if they're taken at 24fps. There are just as many heated discussions in the cinema world about if 24 fps looks better/good/good enough as there are here.

As an example: 30fps means each frame will stay on the screen for 0.03s. If there is any motion then the eye would typically make the moving part blurry. In computer generated images that is not the case. You see the image of the object at a very specific point in time, unless the video engine emulates the motion blur by creating multiple images at different points during those 0.03s and mixing them together. So one pixel that would have moved during those 0.03s would appear more as a line. Of course, that's not applicable here, because if the engine could create 4 frames within 0.03s we would not have this discussion.

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i've tried 24 on my setup (In signature.  But a 43" 4K TV).  I didn't like it.  Panning around the cockpit with chaseplane was not as desirable as I found locking to 30.  


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In my laptop display (60 Hz) it looked choppy at full screen. After casting to my Samsung 32"TV (using Chromecast), it looked smoother. I don't know why...


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I like being able to do cool stuff like this: https://streamable.com/xl6bin. So I can't imagine being forced to lock my FPS so low that I can't make rapid head movements. Even when flying airliners I want to be able to keep my head on a swivel for quick interactions with the overhead panel, autopilot, etc. 

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9 hours ago, JensNJ66 said:

You can not compare 24 fps in a simulator with 24 fps in film. Film is creating a distinct look using a shutter speed doubling the frame rate to create motion blur. We don't have that in the flight sim world, which makes the images look more "flickery".

I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, since if you like it or not is very subjective, but you can't compare it. That's also why motion has a much bigger effect that some people can tolerate less than others.

Exactly.. cannot compare like, at all.. huge oversight. 

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Your vid looks very good and smooth. Well done.

If you were turning at 400knots very quickly in an F18 you might spot the difference with 60 fps but you then you probaly wouldn't notic it either you would have to react and watch the instruments at that speed, instead of sightseeing.. 

- - - -

And I don't care about comparing film projectors with flightsim displays, as we only use displays wihtout shutters, so all these remarkes have nothing to do with flightsimming...

Edited by GSalden

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Still working on this. Again this is just for viewing at 24hz. Your millage may vary. I used good old Microsoft Movie maker for this and discovered when uploading the video the I used a much to high bit rate. The 25 min video ended up being 4gb. It to me 3 days to upload it🤣

Anyway you can judge for yourself if 24fps/hz is something that can work for you. The advantages are obvious but I acknowledge that never display is suitable. Also if you are panning with a hat switch I doubt it will work either. Smooth panning is necessary. That can be accomplished with TrackIR5 smoothing and EZCA additional smoothing. In the final analysis for me its a lot better than 30fps/hz. Not just because of higher setting but my display just handles 24hz better than it handles 30hz.

Over and out!😁

 

Edited by Quasimodo

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Looking very good and very realistic. 😃

Edited by GSalden
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13900 8 cores @ 5.5-5.8 GHz / 8 cores @ 4.3 GHz (hyperthreading on) - Asus ROG Strix Gaming D4 - GSkill Ripjaws 2x 16 Gb 4266 mhz @ 3200 mhz / cas 13 -  Inno3D RTX4090 X3 iCHILL 24 Gb - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 2TB - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 1Tb - Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Thermaltake Level 10 GT case - EKWB Extreme 240 liquid cooling set push/pull - 2x 55’ Sony 4K tv's as front view and right view.

13600  6 cores @ 5.1 GHz / 8 cores @ 4.0 GHz (hypterthreading on) - Asus ROG Strix Gaming D - GSkill Trident 4x Gb 3200 MHz cas 15 - Asus TUF RTX 4080 16 Gb  - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 2TB - 2x  Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Corsair D4000 Airflow case - NXT Krajen Z63 AIO liquide cooling - 1x 65” Sony 4K tv as left view.

FOV : 190 degrees

My flightsim vids :  https://www.youtube.com/user/fswidesim/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0

 

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