Maybe sub-forums about trees and alpha access for dummies?

[F737MAX 5,526]

35 minutes ago, nickhod said:

I know this is tongue in cheek, but it's kind of ironic that the (over) moderation of this forum

Killed off any VR talk by siloing it into a new subforum
Killed off any hardware talk by banning it
Closed down every few threads on subjects that were "not allowed", based on no written rules

The end result being the MSFS sub-Reddit getting busier and busier and this forum getting quieter and quieter.
Who'd have thunk it.

So, no, let people talk about what they want to talk about.

Over moderation, like this you mean?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MicrosoftFlightSim/comments/grlizp/were_just_trying_to_cope/

A pinned 31-page thread on MSFS' hardware specs requirement would suggest that hardware can be discussed, just in the appropriate location.


Is it really a surprise that it's quieter in this forum?

- Majority of current alpha testers have gone to the MSFS forum to be able to discuss everything that they are experiencing.
- People not in the alpha were bored of being left on tenterhooks for so long about the alpha invites.
- All of the most exciting content has long since been revealed. The IFR episode doesn't appear to have been a hit and #WingWednesday has some people complaining of being too repetitive.
- Most flight simmers realise that their current sims still work well to give them their sim fix.
- There's only so much hype a product can maintain. It's been about a year so far since reveal, frequent updates and there's still (probably) another 3 to 6 months until release.

Next up-tick in interest will likely be beta.
 

[nickhod 425]

21 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Is it really a surprise that it's quieter in this forum?

There are far more people outside alpha than inside, so it's a surprise when the sub-Reddit has grown and continues to grow.

https://subredditstats.com/r/MicrosoftFlightSim/

 

23 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Over moderation, like this you mean?

No, that's cleaning up an excess of low effort "waiting for invite" memes.
Good moderation is important. What was happening on here was out of control and I think many just gave up posting as they assumed their post would be locked or deleted.

 

26 minutes ago, F737NG said:

MSFS' hardware specs requirement would suggest that hardware can be discussed

With a pinned thread underneath it saying hardware topics are not allowed? 🤷‍♂️

 

[Wobbie 938]

Maybe it's quiet because people have become bored that dead horses have been flogged so many times, and so much has been spoken about repeated comments. As well as the fact that nothing much new is out there. Trying to find intelligent Reddit comments are just as annoying.

An example is the ongoing debate in the Development/Insider Update forum about subscriptions. Too many 'people in the know' there! Also, nothing new in the 21 pages there. 

[LHookins 3,102]

1 hour ago, nickhod said:

Killed off any VR talk by siloing it into a new subforum
Killed off any hardware talk by banning it
Closed down every few threads on subjects that were "not allowed", based on no written rules

You can talk about VR all you want.  It even has its own forum.  The reason it has its own forum is that VR people were spamming every thread.  Creating a sub-forum actually helped the VR people.

Avsim has been forced to close many threads due to the efforts of a very few posters.  Rather than muzzle the problem posters, they close the threads.  

Hook

[nickhod 425]

6 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Creating a sub-forum actually helped the VR people.

All I know is that there was lively debate about VR, then it got banned, then the ban was reversed and a sub-forum was opened that no one really used or uses.
Whatever the intention, the net result was that VR talk stopped.

That's my overall point about this thread, careful what you wish for by stopping people talking about x or y. You end up with no one talking at all.

[F737MAX 5,526]

1 hour ago, nickhod said:

There are far more people outside alpha than inside, so it's a surprise when the sub-Reddit has grown and continues to grow.

Is it a surprise? I don't think it is.
A new forum, entirely dedicated to MSFS talk, on a platform that has a different demographic to the one here on Avsim, with a UI set up for late millennials and Gen Z, and for a crowd that is 'relatively new' to flight sims. Of course it will grow.

I'm not going to get into a line-by-line argument. I've found that anyone who does that, tends to want it to escalate. I don't think you're right on other points you've made, however, they're your opinions and you're very much entitled to make them.
 

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

You can talk about VR all you want.  It even has its own forum.  The reason it has its own forum is that VR people were spamming every thread.  Creating a sub-forum actually helped the VR people.

Precisely.
A lot of threads were started with or hit by a stream of "no VR, no buy" type statements.
This in turn frustrated some non-VR users and then such threads went south pretty quickly.

I think nearly everyone agrees that VR capability should implemented. Really, the only question is where on Asobo's priority list it should sit. Since we've gone over that plenty already, I won't say any more about it to avoid starting a re-hash of the same 'discussion points'.


Unusually for Avsim, there is a thread and a sub-forum with regards to hardware on the MSFS forum, rather than the usual shove every related topic into the hardware forum.
To me that says the powers-that-be are listening to and acting on user feedback.
 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

1 hour ago, nickhod said:

All I know is that there was lively debate about VR, then it got banned, then the ban was reversed and a sub-forum was opened that no one really used or uses.
Whatever the intention, the net result was that VR talk stopped.

That's my overall point about this thread, careful what you wish for by stopping people talking about x or y. You end up with no one talking at all.

Come on, Nick 😉 ! There was a flooding of any thread by a few guys who took up any opportunity to convince the world that VR was so wonderful and that no VR was a no buy. Avsim responded to the weariness expressed by other posters by setting up a special sub for them. Nice ! You can't fault Avsim  nor your fellow simmers  not interested by VR that the VR folks vanished out of the blue skies and don't have their 'lively debates' in a well indicated sub. 

For the hardware, I was the first to ask whether it was really the right decision. I see there are now a lot of inhibited discussions on the matter. 

 

 

[Doug47 574]

4 hours ago, Wobbie said:

Trying to find intelligent Reddit comments are just as annoying.

 

 

Agree. Reddit will surely go down in history as an abomination of a place.
Why it’s so popular will forever will remain a mystery.

And popular with kids which is strange as the ‘forum’ format is the same as the early forums in the early 90 to mid 90’s.  Same horrible and boring tree style threads. 
 

Even worse is discord which strangely everyone loves which also is the same boring concept from nearly 30 years ago and is equally tedious with its ancient format. 
 

Come on kids, catch up. It’s 2020 not 1995. 🙄

[HiFlyer 9,343]

53 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

There was a flooding of any thread by a few guys who took up any opportunity to convince the world that VR was so wonderful and that no VR was a no buy.

Show me such a post, and I will raise  you with a matching post about TrackIR that members and mods had no problems with.

[Mack84 61]

5 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Show me such a post, and I will raise  you with a matching post about TrackIR that members and mods had no problems with.

Or seasons for that matter

[Dominique_K 10,133]

Just now, HiFlyer said:

Show me such a post, and I will raise  you with a matching post about TrackIR that members and mods had no problems with.

My point was not here. It is that Avsim responded to the enthusiasm of some and the corresponding weariness of others by setting up a sub for the former where they could discuss at length their passion for VR. I don't see anything wrong with that. When the mod forbid  FS20 hardware discussions my reaction was to ask for a sub. Subs are a nice way to gather people to discuss matters of interest.

The fact that the VR sub is a little quiet is mainly because the said enthusiasts did not make it a success. 

[HiFlyer 9,343]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

The fact that the VR sub is a little quiet is mainly because the said enthusiasts did not make it a success. 

We took it as what it was. A rejection by this forum, of Vr enthusiasts. There are a growing number of other places to post where the subject is appreciated, so that's where the people are going.

EDIT: Many a time I have started to post in that subforum, then paused, remembered what happened here, and didn't bother.

There's no point when there are Discords, Reddits, Facebook groups, and even other Aviation forums that actually want us. Even the much maligned Obsidianant has an active Flight Simulation subforum on his discord.

Edited June 2, 2020 by HiFlyer

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

2 hours ago, Doug47 said:

Come on kids, catch up. It’s 2020 not 1995.

There's not one point in your whole post that I can agree with. What happened to you on reddit? Did you get downvoted and lose all your karma? At least reddit subs have some semblance of order unlike the twin cesspools of Facebook and Twitter.

[Doug47 574]

31 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

There's not one point in your whole post that I can agree with. What happened to you on reddit? Did you get downvoted and lose all your karma? At least reddit subs have some semblance of order unlike the twin cesspools of Facebook and Twitter.

What are you even talking about? 

[LHookins 3,102]

Perhaps the posts discussing VR in this thread should be moved to the VR forum.  Mods?

Hook