VR in Prepar3D v5

[captain420 3,099]

Does anyone here extensively use VR in P3D v5? I am interested in purchasing my first VR headset but not sure if the technology is ready yet. I'm concerned about resolution and framerates. I run the sim now currently on a 4K TV. Would playing through a VR headset give me the same level of detail? What are some good brands and model to look at that you guys can recommend?

[boddman 2]

Ok, so I have had a 43" 4K monitor along with Track IR that I used for years.  I too was waiting on the fence a long time waiting for VR technology improved before I jumped into it.  I was waiting for the Reverb to release since it supposedly had the best displays, but after all the initial problems I decided to pull the trigger on the Rift S and haven't looked back.  I have only a GTX 1080 card which was minimum for the Reverb but is plenty for the Rift S.  

So, going from 4K to VR, the resolution and clarity is going to suck.  No way of getting around that at the moment.  However, it is such a game changer in terms of immersion and scale.  Once you are sitting in the cockpit, you get a better sense of the size and height etc.  I've been frustrated at times at the lack of clarity, stutters and laginess you sometimes get but I'm finding it to be much smoother in both P3d v5 as well as in X-Plane with Vulkan.  Every once in a while, I go back and try to fly using my 4k TV, and while I find the clarity to be amazing, everything will feel really small and still hard to read because the gauge is significantly smaller then what your used to in VR.

My advice from a former hold out, jump in and see what the fuss is about for yourself.  I also recommend the Rift S as the cost is significantly lower then the other HMD's and it has lower hardware requirements.  That way if you don't like it, you won't have as much into it as other HMD's and eventually the quality will improve as new Video cards and headsets come out. 

[Pilot53 543]

33 minutes ago, captain420 said:

Does anyone here extensively use VR in P3D v5? I am interested in purchasing my first VR headset but not sure if the technology is ready yet. I'm concerned about resolution and framerates. I run the sim now currently on a 4K TV. Would playing through a VR headset give me the same level of detail? What are some good brands and model to look at that you guys can recommend?

It wont be the same level of detail, but you can crank up the super sampling to help offset the lack of resolution.  I run 2284x2852 per eye on my Odyssey and the lower resolution doesnt bother me one bit, if I had to run it without super sampling that would be an issue.  It puts a huge load on the gpu and vram (a bit of an issue with v5 at the moment), slightly more load on the cpu in single pass mode, and alot more load on the cpu in stereo.  If you have a 1080ti or better it should suffice, but even the 11gb of vram will be cutting it close with v5 as it is now.  I went with the samsung odyssey for the amoled displays despite having to fuss around with wmr because I hated the bright black levels from the lcds in my rift, made night flying awful.  I havent tried any of the newer hmds which are all using lcds now, maybe they have improved black levels idk.   That being said, the immersion you get from actually sitting in a life-scale 3d cockpit is incredible and cannot be put into words.  I would never in a million years go back to simming on a 2d screen despite the drawbacks of VR.    

Edited June 6, 2020 by Pilot53

[captain420 3,099]

Seems I may have to wait then. I was considering the Occulus RIft-S, but didn't know Facebook bought them out. And since I don't like Facebook and won't buy anything with their name on it. I will probably look for alternatives.

[glider1 90]

30 minutes ago, captain420 said:

Does anyone here extensively use VR in P3D v5? I am interested in purchasing my first VR headset but not sure if the technology is ready yet. I'm concerned about resolution and framerates. I run the sim now currently on a 4K TV. Would playing through a VR headset give me the same level of detail? What are some good brands and model to look at that you guys can recommend?

If you can wait the HP Reverb 2 is coming out later this year should be good for simulation. If you can't wait then HP Reverb 1 now since the resolution is the same. You should consider at least a 2080 GPU to give it proper power. Don't buy a headset with less resolution you will not be happy. Reverb runs well on P3D because it uses steam interface and the badly designed controllers are not needed. Software quality should continue to improve because of Microsoft/steam collaboration.

[captain420 3,099]

Yes, I am willing to wait, there's no rush. Thanks for the suggestions. I will do some more research and some comparisons of new and upcoming VR headsets then.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, captain420 said:

Does anyone here extensively use VR in P3D v5? I am interested in purchasing my first VR headset but not sure if the technology is ready yet. I'm concerned about resolution and framerates. I run the sim now currently on a 4K TV. Would playing through a VR headset give me the same level of detail? What are some good brands and model to look at that you guys can recommend?

I only fly in VR in P3D v5, and I have been flying it a LOT since release. 

The tech is here, and has been for several years. No, a VR headset will not give you the same level of detail as a 4K TV, but it is way, way more immersive! Do you want to sit in the aircraft, or just look at it on a screen??

For starters, buy a Rift S. Lot of options, but that is a cheap, simple and effective choice. You need a good video card to drive it well, but with the proper hardware VR in P3D is a lot of fun. I've run VR with a GTX 970. GTX 1080Ti and now a 2080Ti, which is sweet if you can acquire one.

I left flatscreen simming when the Oculus DK2 arrived, and I'm never going back. Just get a Rift, if immersion is important to you, you will be very, very happy. 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, Pilot53 said:

It wont be the same level of detail, but you can crank up the super sampling to help offset the lack of resolution.  I run 2284x2852 per eye on my Odyssey and the lower resolution doesnt bother me one bit, if I had to run it without super sampling that would be an issue.  It puts a huge load on the gpu and vram (a bit of an issue with v5 at the moment), slightly more load on the cpu in single pass mode, and alot more load on the cpu in stereo.  If you have a 1080ti or better it should suffice, but even the 11gb of vram will be cutting it close with v5 as it is now.  I went with the samsung odyssey for the amoled displays despite having to fuss around with wmr because I hated the bright black levels from the lcds in my rift, made night flying awful.  I havent tried any of the newer hmds which are all using lcds now, maybe they have improved black levels idk.   That being said, the immersion you get from actually sitting in a life-scale 3d cockpit is incredible and cannot be put into words.  I would never in a million years go back to simming on a 2d screen despite the drawbacks of VR.    

Consider getting a Rift S. I flew with the Odyssey+ for a long time - still own it - but I would not go back to it now (I've tried a few times). Rift S is pretty cheap, and way better for Prepar3d use.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, captain420 said:

Seems I may have to wait then. I was considering the Occulus RIft-S, but didn't know Facebook bought them out. And since I don't like Facebook and won't buy anything with their name on it. I will probably look for alternatives.

Don't overthink it. Just get a Rift S. The fact that Facebook owns the company is pretty irrelevant - I'm no fan of Facebook either, but I wouldn't want to miss out on what Oculus VR has to offer just because of that.

[captain420 3,099]

Question, how do you deal with complex planes like PMDG Boeings, Airbuses, when rotating switches and entering data into the MCDU/FMC with a VR headset? I have never used one and thus am quite curious. And also when using the keyboard, are you suppose to take off the VR headset just to see the keys? I mean a keyboard is absolutely necessary for flight simming, I use it for chaseplane shortcuts, movement, typing and other things such as activating the reverse thrust upon landing, etc. If having to take off the VR headset each and every time I need to see my keyboard, then that would completely kill the experience for me.

Also what about accessing the menubar up top in p3d? How does that work? Do you use the mouse or the controllers that come with the headset?

Edited June 6, 2020 by captain420

[YoYo 374]

For 1080 take Rift-S, you havent big choice for this GPU and not, picture isnt like on screen 4K. Maybe in next 4 years :).

[glider1 90]

2 hours ago, captain420 said:

Question, how do you deal with complex planes like PMDG Boeings, Airbuses, when rotating switches and entering data into the MCDU/FMC with a VR headset? I have never used one and thus am quite curious. And also when using the keyboard, are you suppose to take off the VR headset just to see the keys? I mean a keyboard is absolutely necessary for flight simming, I use it for chaseplane shortcuts, movement, typing and other things such as activating the reverse thrust upon landing, etc. If having to take off the VR headset each and every time I need to see my keyboard, then that would completely kill the experience for me.

Also what about accessing the menubar up top in p3d? How does that work? Do you use the mouse or the controllers that come with the headset?

You interact with the cockpit like you do on flatscreen with the mouse except that it is all in 3D. If you need to type you bring in the desktop as a window inside the plane (almost the same as if you had your flightsim computer as a laptop inside a real plane). If you don't want to use your physical keyboard, you can use virtual keyboard and mousing the keys. I don't recommend any resolution less than a Reverb because you can't read the text in desktop windows inside the plane very well. For example I read all PDF's and write up my logbook sitting in the pilots chair using a desktop window inside VR. You have full access to your computer inside the plane even watch a movie if you want. Rift-S might be good enough if you are on a budget.

Edited June 6, 2020 by glider1

[OzWhitey 3,353]

2 hours ago, glider1 said:

You interact with the cockpit like you do on flatscreen with the mouse except that it is all in 3D. If you need to type you bring in the desktop as a window inside the plane (almost the same as if you had your flightsim computer as a laptop inside a real plane). If you don't want to use your physical keyboard, you can use virtual keyboard and mousing the keys. I don't recommend any resolution less than a Reverb because you can't read the text in desktop windows inside the plane very well. For example I read all PDF's and write up my logbook sitting in the pilots chair using a desktop window inside VR. You have full access to your computer inside the plane even watch a movie if you want. Rift-S might be good enough if you are on a budget.

I'm not on a budget, and I think Rift-S is good enough. 🙂

Based on hundreds of hours of VR - if I wanted to use the keyboard, I'd take my headset off - it is occasionally necessary, but I try to keep it to a minimum. I'm not aware of a virtual keyboard function, though - are you thinking of FlyInside, rather than native VR? 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

4 hours ago, captain420 said:

Question, how do you deal with complex planes like PMDG Boeings, Airbuses, when rotating switches and entering data into the MCDU/FMC with a VR headset? I have never used one and thus am quite curious. And also when using the keyboard, are you suppose to take off the VR headset just to see the keys? I mean a keyboard is absolutely necessary for flight simming, I use it for chaseplane shortcuts, movement, typing and other things such as activating the reverse thrust upon landing, etc. If having to take off the VR headset each and every time I need to see my keyboard, then that would completely kill the experience for me.

Also what about accessing the menubar up top in p3d? How does that work? Do you use the mouse or the controllers that come with the headset?

If you are going to enjoy VR with complex aircraft, you need to adapt. It's largely an issue of working out a good human-machine interface.

" I mean a keyboard is absolutely necessary for flight simming," - you need to overcome your preconceptions. It's not "absolutely necessary", and in fact you should try and avoid using it during flight. On occasions where it does prove necessary - yes - you remove your headset. But as you say, that ruins the immersion, so the goal is not to do this.

"Do you use the mouse or the controllers that come with the headset?". P3D VR makes no use of the VR controllers, it's all mouse and joystick. You can use the VR controller to leave P3D and go to a virtual desktop (with Rift), which is useful for thinks like looking at LIttleNavMap etc.

So, how to make VR work for complex applications e.g. PMDG? Based on (many) hundreds of hours, this is what I currently do:

1. Make full use of a HOTAS setup. I'm using the Warthog throttle, as it has a lot of switches. I use the hat switches to control heading, speed and alt on the MCP. I have switches maped to autobrake, spoilers, AP, AT, gear, LOC/APP, HMD reset, hdg select, hdg hold, LNAV, VNAV, alt hold and FLCH mode. Also - just checked - AT and AP disconnect and parking brake. BY the way, I have a full motorised 737 throttle and a CPFlight MCP - in VR, I find that the humble Warthog just works better. 

2. I use Voiceattack for extra commands. This is optional, but adds a lot to the immersion.

3.If there's a task that I can't complete with the above, I use the mouse in VR.

4. If I still can't complete the task, I would leave VR mode and use the keyboard. In P3D, it is very easy to switch in and out of VR mode, but my aim in a flight would be to not do so.

With this approach, I can complete a flight in VR from gate to gate. 

Where it gets hard - things like copying down a clearance if you're using real ATC. If you need to do this, the simple answer is to take your headset off. As I don't like to do this, I tend to use Pilot2ATC, and get my FO to handle the radio calls.

There are a bunch of inconveniences of flying in VR, but they are 1000% made up for by the immersion. In addition, it's a lot more like real flying - even track IR doesn't allow you to look around the cabin and locate the runway when you're on the base leg in the way that VR does.

A final note - you have to commit to VR and stick with it for at least a few weeks. It takes time for the brain to adapt, and motion sickness is a real issue for some beginners. Persevere, and you'll get your VR legs - and then, before you know it, you'll be crossing the pond in a virtual cockpit.

Edited June 6, 2020 by OzWhitey

[Flyfox 114]

I couldn‘t agree more with you, Rob! VR in flightsim was a total game changer for me. I actually came from RW flying and had an active PPL for gliders, SEP aircraft and glider pulling for many years. Now, due to age and location I don‘t fly in the real world any longer but P3D in VR is a very good replacement for the RW flight experience.

For your info: In order to do all operations without leaving the VR cockpit, I use the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog and rudder pedals as well as the small Logitec gamepad G13. The latter allows me to access all functions, which I don‘t have available on my HOTAS, conveniently without removing the VR headset. In adition, I also still use EZDOK cameras to access certain instruments or parts of the cockpit, aircraft (including outside views) easily. My headset is the Oculus Rift S, which I use with a supersampling rate of 1.5 to 1.8 (depending on the scenery and aircraft complexity) which results in a surprisingly sharp image and, in combination with my RTX 2070 Super, in a very smooth flying experience.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Flyfox