X-Plane beta TCAS (in)compatibility

[BlackBeltMike 2]

Hi Dave,

It seems with the latest X-Plane betas and Vulkan, Laminar have changed how TCAS is working, and this is causing a problem with traffic not being seen by external utilities such as P2A.  I thought I'd bring this to your attention to ask if you wouldn't mind taking a look to see what might be involved in making P2A compatible with the new way of working, as already this is causing some problems.

Here's where we're discussing this in context of the LiveTraffic plugin - note that LT is one of the early adopters to the new TCAS system, but other traffic providers will all have to implement it this way going forward:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/216381-traffic-not-visible-in-pilot2atc-and-other-atc-apps-add-old-traffic-generation-as-an-option-maybe/ 

Further information in the following links:

https://twinfan.gitbook.io/livetraffic/introduction/features/tcas#does-it-work

Introduction to the new TCAS:

https://developer.x-plane.com/article/overriding-tcas-and-providing-traffic-information/

Thanks for looking.

Mike

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 870]

Mike,

Thanks for the links and the heads up.

Pilot2ATC checks for new and deleted aircraft every second, so it is not an initialization issue.

If I were to venture a guess, it may have something to do with how far away the traffic is.  If beyond 80 NM, it is probably being filtered out.

It will not be a quick fix to change the architecture of P2A to utilize the new 86 AI aircraft mechanism because it will require doing away with XPUIPC, but it is on the list of things to do.

Dave

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 870]

I just fired up the latest X-Plane beta with the latest version of Live Traffic and it all works perfectly.  Same traffic in P2A as in the X-Plane map.

Ahh, but after a few minutes, the traffic begins to disappear from P2A. 

But wait, it also starts to disappear from the X-Plane map.

I'm sitting at KSFO, and all the ground traffic is at Oakland across the bay: KOAK.

Good news is, it's the same in X-Plane and P2A.

This does not appear to be a P2A issue.

Dave

Edited June 8, 2020 by Dave-Pilot2ATC

[BlackBeltMike 2]

Hi Dave,

Thanks.  I will run more tests at my next opportunity (maybe later this evening)  to try narrow things down.

Two questions:

1. Did you run the tests with Vulkan rendering enabled?  

2. Did you have any AI aircraft enabled? (which AFAIK LiveTraffic would take control of via TCAS)

3. In the scenario I mentioned, mid-flight, LT created a nearby high altitude contact which appeared on the X-Plane map but which could not be seen in P2A.  I tried disconnecting/reconnecting P2A and clicking the two 'display planes' buttons but P2A did not display it.  So I'm trying to track this down.  Does P2A use filters other than distance?

Mike

 

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 870]

I did not specifically enable Vulkan, but I can't see how that would matter one way or another.

Yes, all 19 AI Aircraft were enabled and LT took control.

There are only 19 aircraft available for P2A to see, and 86 for X-Plane to display. So it is not a surprise that the X-Plane map shows some that are not visible to P2A.  It's up to LT as to which 19 aircraft are shown for external programs to see.  I know, for example, that early versions of other engines only showed airborne traffic.  I did see both airborne and ground traffic in my test, but some of the ground traffic was not at the same airport that my plane was parked at.

Dave

[nguenther 0]

Dave,

when do you plan an update for the new

override_TCAS

dataref in X-Plane 11?

Thanks

 Nils

[JeB1952 15]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:13 AM, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

I did not specifically enable Vulkan, but I can't see how that would matter one way or another.

Yes, all 19 AI Aircraft were enabled and LT took control.

There are only 19 aircraft available for P2A to see, and 86 for X-Plane to display. So it is not a surprise that the X-Plane map shows some that are not visible to P2A.  It's up to LT as to which 19 aircraft are shown for external programs to see.  I know, for example, that early versions of other engines only showed airborne traffic.  I did see both airborne and ground traffic in my test, but some of the ground traffic was not at the same airport that my plane was parked at.

Dave

There are no AI aircraft with the new tcas system and thus none of the ai overhead.  Now that TCAS is back in Traffic global and possibly world traffic, x-life etc, Pilot2ATC does not see the traffic or display on map .

 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Over in the traffic global forum, the author Dave says that traffic global has an SDK that is ready to go, and that the author of P2ATC only needs to contact him to get setup? Will this ever happen? 

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 870]

There is obviously some confusion somewhere.

I have been working with the Traffic Global Dev, Jim.  It requires a major structural/architectural change to P2A to implement the new AI Traffic mechanisms, so it's not going to happen right away.  It is being worked on.

Regards,

Dave

 

[akatham 9]

As a workaround for Pilot2ATC to see Traffic Global planes with the X-Planes new TCAS system, you can still manually add 19 AI planes.
In the flight configuration window click on the AI Aircraft button on top of the window and select the "Traffic Global TCAS (other)" plane. Make sure you have enabled TCAS in the settings of TG.
TG will use the new TCAS system, but maps the 19 AI planes to the nearest ones so Pilot2ATC can see them.

 

Note: you can only add the AI planes when you haven't started a flight, otherwise you have to temporarily disable Traffic Global via the Plugin Admin

Edit: apparently you have do add them everytime you start x-plane.

Edited July 9, 2020 by akatham

[JeB1952 15]

17 hours ago, akatham said:

As a workaround for Pilot2ATC to see Traffic Global planes with the X-Planes new TCAS system, you can still manually add 19 AI planes.
In the flight configuration window click on the AI Aircraft button on top of the window and select the "Traffic Global TCAS (other)" plane. Make sure you have enabled TCAS in the settings of TG.
TG will use the new TCAS system, but maps the 19 AI planes to the nearest ones so Pilot2ATC can see them.

 

Note: you can only add the AI planes when you haven't started a flight, otherwise you have to temporarily disable Traffic Global via the Plugin Admin

Edit: apparently you have do add them everytime you start x-plane.

I don't think it is needed or works.  As soon as TG starts and TCAS enabled then the AI aircrafts are no longer accessable.  I have seen the datarefs and everything is present including the old datarefs.

Why p2a doesn't see them is probably depending on a single flag.

No to get this straight the fix required for p2a is to see traffic not interface with TG.  TCAS is X plane which p2a used to support and now it isn't working.  So it continues waiting for 11.50 support and this has nothing to do with opengl or vulcan.

[akatham 9]

Well, it works, and currently if you want to see those planes in P2ATC, it is needed (same works for World Traffic 3, that is where i got it from).

 

Without manual AI-Planes:

https://imgur.com/a/wkiIWKD

 

With manual AI-Planes:

https://imgur.com/a/MCKJ4hR

[akatham 9]

Unfortunately it seems to only work at the start, after a few minutes P2ATC no longer sees the planes. So scratch that.

[snomhf 14]

I'm glad to see that at least I'm not the only one experiencing this TCAS problem with P2A.   I was really scratching my head over seeing the grayed out AI Airplanes in the XP config.   So apparently,  I have to establish the AI before I start a flight?   I'll look into that.  Getting rid of those stupid FPS gobbling AI airplanes is a wonderful thing but it sure is causing a major disruption!   Hopefully everyone will get on the same page eventually.