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ryanbatc

Cannot start APU

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I've owned this plane for quite some time but never really took the time to do a C+D startup.  So I found a really nice YT video by Jonfly and watched him start his copy up.  I've done everything the same (GPU started) but as soon as I press START on the APU I see the backlight for just a millisecond (and the click associated with the push button) but it won't start.

EDIT EDIT: Well I take this back...the APU is started there just wasn't a noticeable sound so I missed the rpm to 100percent.  But I can't start the engine.  I turned on AC1 and 2 inverters and bleed air on the APU.  I press and hold middle red and white button to start but nothing happens.  I wonder if its because my CH throttle (single throttle) won't stick at idle cutoff.  I see in this guy's video his levers are ALL the way back.  Mine kinda bounce around at 6% throttle.  Is there a hidden clickspot to make them go back to cutoff?

Here's the tutorial vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcERjTQVTx0

Here's where I'm at 

49993910597_312643fde2_o.pngFSWFA50_noAPU by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Here's status of my OH panel

49993910862_6d1b29f961_o.pngFSWFA50_noAPU2 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited by ryanbatcund

| FAA ZMP |
| PPL ASEL |
| Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | EVGA GTX1080 Ti | 32GB 5600 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X |

 

 

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Click the red paddles on the thrust levers and they lock into the cutoff position prior to start

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2 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

I don't think that tutorial is correct wrt starting the APU. You don't use external power (the GPU) to start the APU -- it is started with the a/c battery. Here is what that FSW manual says:  (my comments in green).

7. APU (To start the automatic power unit.)  Typo, should say Auxiliary power unit. Should also say a/c batteries on!
a) Bus A + B must be tied. (Flight normal off, rotary knob offJust a verbal mistake in the tutorial here, Flight normal is when the rotary switch is vertical, so the APU start position is with the Flight Normal switch off, i.e., horizontal. I think tying the A and B buses parallels the two main a/c batteries thus providing more current to start the APU. Also, once running the APU only directly powers the Right Main bus, so by connecting the buses together APU power is further distributed to the Left Main bus.
b) #2 booster switch on   Only this one booster pump is needed to supply fuel to the APU.
c) APU master on.
d) GEN on.                    Meaning the APU generator switch
e) Press START.
f) Bleed air is optional.
G) Press STOP to turn off the APU system.
NOTE: Make sure the external power switch is on normal and not external power. This is for the GPU only.   The point here is if you are using external power ( a GPU - Ground Power Unit), you don't need to use the APU to start the Falcon50 engines.

Hopefully Jim Barrett, our real life Falcon 50 expert and A&P mechanic, will see this thread and comment.

Al
EDIT: See Jim's APU comments in this thread https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/574538-apu-needles-meter/?tab=comments#comment-4228536.

Edited by ark

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Oh yeah you're right... I should have known this.  GPU is for engine startup without APU.  APU is for engine startup without GPU.  If I recall APU running is extremely expensive as it burns fuel quickly.


| FAA ZMP |
| PPL ASEL |
| Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | EVGA GTX1080 Ti | 32GB 5600 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X |

 

 

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35 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

Oh yeah you're right... I should have known this.  GPU is for engine startup without APU.  APU is for engine startup without GPU.  If I recall APU running is extremely expensive as it burns fuel quickly.

Actually, the APU in the 50 is quite miserly in its fuel consumption. Crews will typically always opt for APU on the ramp (especially in hot or cold weather), as it allows the use of bleed air to run the ACM units for heating or cooling the cabin. About the only time a GPU will be requested for flight operations will be if the APU is inoperative.

Maintenance is a different matter - we always use external power for doing systems checks on the ground. No point in wasting fuel or adding hours to the APU. The exception would be if an engine run is required. 

In the real aircraft, if the APU bleed air has been used for heating or cooling prior to engine start, standard practice is to turn the bleed switch off on the APU control panel before starting engines. Since the engine starters are electric, it puts quite a load on the APU generator during the start of the first engine. If APU bleed is on at the same time, it can cause an APU EGT exceedance which could cause it to shutdown. 

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Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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Awesome!  I'll try tonight to get this puppy going!


| FAA ZMP |
| PPL ASEL |
| Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | EVGA GTX1080 Ti | 32GB 5600 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X |

 

 

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13 hours ago, pilatuz said:

Click the red paddles on the thrust levers and they lock into the cutoff position prior to start

See that's the problem...doesn't work with my CH throttle.  (It's got a noisy lever or something...throttles always jiggle a little in the sim)

EDIT: So i deleted my throttle axis but the levers still won't click into cutoff ARGH.  I think this is why I can't start it up.

Here's a video showing what's happening with my throttle.  I'm trying a reboot of P3D after deleting throttle axis again to see if I can't get them locked into cutoff (though that won't fix the issue of my CH throttle not working hehe)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/we9wi72nx9faqjt/20200611_115714.mp4?dl=0

EDIT EDIT lol:  Yep that was the issue.  Rats....nothing I can do about that then.  I'll have to have it setup for systems ready to go!

She's up in the air from cold and dark!

49995830457_5b889326bf_o.pngfa50up by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited by ryanbatcund

| FAA ZMP |
| PPL ASEL |
| Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | EVGA GTX1080 Ti | 32GB 5600 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X |

 

 

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6 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

EDIT EDIT lol:  Yep that was the issue.  Rats....nothing I can do about that then.  I'll have to have it setup for systems ready to go!

Ryan,

After getting the throttles as close to idle as you can with your CH throttle lever(s), see if you can pull the throttles back 'the rest of the way' to against the idle stop by grabbing the white handles with your mouse, and then try clicking on the red paddles to move the throttles into cutoff.

If that doesn't work, or even if it does, after pulling the CH throttle lever(s) back as far as possible, hover your mouse over the white throttle handles and read in the tool tip the throttles percent setting. From your video I'd guess they are in the 5% to 7% range. Currently, to move the throttles into cutoff by clicking on the red paddles, the throttles have to be at 3% or less. I can send you a modified file so clicking on the red paddles works for your particular CH lever(s) situation, I just need to know to what value to increase the 3% number to.

Al

Edited by ark

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It was saying 6% when I was watching the tooltip


| FAA ZMP |
| PPL ASEL |
| Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | EVGA GTX1080 Ti | 32GB 5600 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X |

 

 

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56 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

It was saying 6% when I was watching the tooltip

OK. PM me an email address and I'll send you a modified Falcon_50.cab file to try.

Did you try pulling the throttles back with the mouse and then clicking on the red paddles -- did that work?

The other thing you can try is after moving the throttles all the way back with CH levers(s), hit the F1 key, and then the red paddles. I'm just curious if these different 'solutions' work.

Another thing to try is to re-calibrate the CH throttle(s) in P3D under Options, Controls, Calibration.

 

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On 6/12/2020 at 12:03 PM, ryanbatcund said:

It was saying 6% when I was watching the tooltip

Another workaround might be to use Ctrl-K (default P3D hardware diconnect key map), use the functions keys to ensure throttles are at zero, and click the red paddles into cutoff. Once engines started, unlock the controls with Ctrl-K.

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