Maddog X Always Skids off the Runway

[PilotPete99 915]

11 minutes ago, Mace said:

Can you elaborate on what you did?  I take it from this thread that you need to set autobrake only once your are at flaps 28 (or 40), but I'm really not sure based on the above. 

Also, what do you do if your MD-82 aircraft isn't equipped with autobrakes? (that is one landing I tried, a/c was configured with no autobrakes).  I suppose in that case, I improperly applied the brakes?

The only additional things I did were arm the spoilers (before take off), and then once I lower the gear and lower the flaps to 28, I armed the auto-brake (switch in the up position). Also, I have been using medium autobrake setting. I think if you set the auto-brake switch to "armed" before you lower the flaps the switch will pop back off (down position). That was it. I am pretty sure that the auto-brake is the key to a normal landing. Also, I think you need to check the "autobrake" box for each livery you install in the load manager. That box is in the section with airplane symbol. I only have the MD-82.

Cheers, Pete

Edited June 19, 2020 by PilotPete99

[Mace 1,902]

22 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

The only additional things I did were arm the spoilers (before take off), and then once I lower the gear and lower the flaps to 28, I armed the auto-brake (switch in the up position). I think if you set the auto-brake switch to armed before you lower the flaps the switch will pop back off (down position).

I think that is what happened to me.

I thought I followed the checklist to the letter but...I may not have.  Having an auto brake switch is not unknown to me but I *do* have a bad habit of "well, let me go ahead and arm the autobrakes now" -- never mind that I'm still 50 nm out with no flap deployment yet.

22 minutes ago, PilotPete99 said:

That was it. I am pretty sure that the auto-brake is the key to a normal landing. Also, I think you need to check the "autobrake" box for each livery you install in the load manager. That box is in the section with airplane symbol. I only have the MD-82.

Cheers, Pete

The first landing I did was with the default Leonardo livery, and it didn't have autobrake set in the manager, so I just assumed that was typical.  Then when I rolled out....wow, she went wild on me.  Luckily I did not leave the runway, but it was like amateur hour there for about 10 seconds, and I thought of the scene from Dirty Harry -- "Captain, can you fly?"

This weekend I am going to take it out to TNT (KTNT -- Dade/Collier Training and Transition) airport and do some circuits.

[PilotPete99 915]

20 minutes ago, Mace said:

I think that is what happened to me.

I thought I followed the checklist to the letter but...I may not have.  Having an auto brake switch is not unknown to me but I *do* have a bad habit of "well, let me go ahead and arm the autobrakes now" -- never mind that I'm still 50 nm out with no flap deployment yet.

The first landing I did was with the default Leonardo livery, and it didn't have autobrake set in the manager, so I just assumed that was typical.  Then when I rolled out....wow, she went wild on me.  Luckily I did not leave the runway, but it was like amateur hour there for about 10 seconds, and I thought of the scene from Dirty Harry -- "Captain, can you fly?"

This weekend I am going to take it out to TNT (KTNT -- Dade/Collier Training and Transition) airport and do some circuits.

It is amazing how since I learned about the autobrake from the fine folks in the forum, I have done about 6 flights and all landings were good. I did the same think the first time with the autobrake, as I set it before I took off! That didn't work because it pops back off after take off. I haven't flown anything else since!

Cheers, Pete

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, Mace said:

Can you elaborate on what you did?  I take it from this thread that you need to set autobrake only once your are at flaps 28 (or 40), but I'm really not sure based on the above. 

Also, what do you do if your MD-82 aircraft isn't equipped with autobrakes? (that is one landing I tried, a/c was configured with no autobrakes).  I suppose in that case, I improperly applied the brakes?

You can set autobrakes - eg to medium - at any time during flight, but you can only arm them, via the switch above the autobrake knob, once landing flaps (28 or 40 degrees) have been deployed. It’s a two-step procedure, unlike many other aircraft.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

On 6/17/2020 at 11:19 PM, PilotPete99 said:

I always deploy the spoilers at touchdown, not sure if there is an automatic feature but I just hit the " / " key.

Correct procedure is to arm them prior to landing, they will automatically deploy on touchdown, no need to use the “/“ key.

You should also disarm them after takeoff, rather than leaving them armed for the whole flight.

 

[PilotPete99 915]

Just now, OzWhitey said:

Correct procedure is to arm them prior to landing, they will automatically deploy on touchdown, no need to use the “/“ key.

You should also disarm them after takeoff, rather than leaving them armed for the whole flight.

 

So arm them for takeoff, then disarm during flight, and then rearm prior to landing?

Cheers, Pete

[cwburnett 1,809]

1 hour ago, PilotPete99 said:

So arm them for takeoff, then disarm during flight, and then rearm prior to landing?

Cheers, Pete

Yes.

Before takeoff checklist includes:

-Trim (check)

-Flaps (check)

-Ground Spoilers Armed

-Autobrake set to TO (for RTO) and Armed

-Lights

Then, after takeoff, with the "positive rate" call, the clean up checklist includes:

-gear up

-noselights off

-spoilers disarm

-autobrake to off (it will already be disarmed), so just adjust the knob to the off position)

-flaps and slats up at flap and slat retract speed

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by cwburnett

[Mace 1,902]

Aha.  Perfect landing this time.  I did use Medium autobrake.    I agree with Pilot Pete.  Thanks to you all also.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

11 hours ago, PilotPete99 said:

So arm them for takeoff, then disarm during flight, and then rearm prior to landing?

Cheers, Pete

@Pete

Your non-SOP approach to arming spoilers reminded me of Air Canada 621 (thought it was the same name!)

Flying a DC-8, as opposed to your smartened-up DC-9, that Captain Peter, like you, was a bit of a fan arming/activating spoilers after touchdown. His FO liked arming them at the flare, also not SOP. The theory was to prevent premature deployment.

Their debate about this ended up with a confused FO accidentally deploying - rather than arming - the spoilers at flare. Didn’t work out well.

FO	What happened there, Peter?
CA	That't number 4 (unintelligible) Something's happened (unintelligible)
FO	Oh, look, we've got a (unintelligible).
FO	Pete, sorry.
	[louder sound of explosion]
DEP	621. The status of your aircraft, please.
	[sound of metal tearing]
CA	We've got an explosion
FO
FO	Oh, gosh
??	We've lost a wing
	[end of transcript] TL;DR - if you are flying Douglas/MD machinery and your name is “Pete”, I strongly recommend sticking to spoiler SOP and arming no later than final approach!

[OzWhitey 3,353]

12 hours ago, Mace said:

Aha.  Perfect landing this time.  I did use Medium autobrake.    I agree with Pilot Pete.  Thanks to you all also.

Glad you're enjoying the landings now. A truly great plane.

Smooth performance in the sim, hand flies like a charm and and am interesting plane for ATP ops as it's the perfect combination of old and new.

I've had the Maddog since FSX, but it's only recently that I've put in the time to start to learn it properly. Definitely time well spent.