Austin Interview on Threshold

[Airboeing 87]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

high performance instead of (default) powersave power profiles set on the cpu and gpu?

One thing I think puts a lot of people off is how clunky gnome is, which often the default window manager, long term windows users would much prefer kde imho, which is more like a windows 7 interface.

I set everything up for best performance. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Linux/Unix fan, and I'm using Linux and FreeBSD since more than 20 years for most things not related to gaming/simming.

I agree that gnome 3 is a nightmare. I usually go with Mate or Xfce.

[mSparks 2,086]

39 minutes ago, Airboeing said:

I set everything up for best performance. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Linux/Unix fan, and I'm using Linux and FreeBSD since more than 20 years for most things not related to gaming/simming.

I agree that gnome 3 is a nightmare. I usually go with Mate or Xfce.

Something doesn't sound right there. I've not actually done any like for like windows benching with X-Plane, but the last time I did a comparison, on heavily multithread big data number crunching tasks, windows 10 was taking ~2 weeks to complete a job and linux only 4 days (which is when I completely uninstalled win10), windows task scheduler is just a steaming pile of junk.

But others have and its a very similar story to what I always see people reporting in terms of perf.

On 6/7/2020 at 3:13 PM, Bjoern said:

Windows (standard AMD driver): OpenGL - 30 FPS (Vulkan - 52 FPS)
Linux (open-source driver): OpenGL - 50 FPS (Vulkan - 60 FPS)

Even if things have improved (and they have fixed quite a few O(C^n) problems in the win10 kernel recently) I'm not paying them for their support offering, it sux worse than google.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

10 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Cross platform development is more time consuming.  There are ALWAYS exceptions in code and library references that will need to be adjusted changed and further more, design needs to restrict itself to constructs that are cross platform or maintain separate paths (either approach takes time).  This is not "easy", it takes time and planning and has restrictions.  And yes I have discussed with the Ben S. several years ago and Ben did downplay the "adjustments" needed which I frankly didn't believe given my own experience and I would dare suggest history is on my side, where are all the features?

OS Desktop market share ... as you can see the potential user audience is considerably larger on the Windows Desktop front.  Since many of the points brought up here are about how long it takes LR to progress the platform, there are solutions to speed that process up:

1.  Don't spend the limited development resources on the 16% audience vs. the 80% audience

2.  Apple shifting to ARM for all it's product line is going force LR to pick a platform or operate on two code paths (not efficient) or worse yet Apple are planning hybrid tools (which is was a nightmare in the past).

https://www.pcgamer.com/apple-intel-arm-cpu-2020/

3.  I don't believe there are only two key developers at LR, that would either suggest XP11 isn't selling as well as hoped or Austin has trust/money issues.  Getting more developer resources gets more features implemented sooner (this is a limit to developer team size efficiency, but LR are WELL below that limit).

4.  Hardware and more important drivers for Windows platforms are several orders of magnitude larger than for Linux/OSX and get developed first and released sooner and more frequently.

Don't get me wrong, I love my OSX (best OS I've ever used).  I found Linux flavors to be too much work (certainly not as end user friendly and will not bring in the masses need to speed up XP development).  Problem with Apple is hardware upgrades for desktop computer are ridiculously slow and that problem will only get worse when they switch to ARM (which frankly are NOT as powerful as Intel or AMD).

I think some of you need to put your platform "love" aside for the greater good of getting XP to advance faster. 

Cheers, Rob.

That's the thing , if Apple is shifting to ARM it's better for LR , the IOS / Android is again ARM based so is the mobile XP  and there was a blog about how they are sharing the code of the mobile with the desktop version.

About the drivers for Linux the Mesa has come a long way with proper 3d Acceleration but LR will not help you if you face an issue with the open source drivers which i had.  Users having a NVIDIA will have better proprietary drivers for Linux but for ones with an AMD GPU would have issues like installation and then getting a black screen , so AMD users shift to the open source ones and it gives great performance.

It's not due to the  love for the platform , it's the efficiency that i have with Linux against windows and yeah the cost of windows license 😁 , I setup Linux based servers including Pfsense for VPN / Firewall Proxy etc .. it eats windows (ofc not a right comparison) .  Same thing about using it as a desktop , starting blender / rendering is way snappier than in Windows. Gimp is faster in Linux.  But I wanted only one OS for all the sims like DCS / il2 so i had to go back to windows.  Loading XP was much faster under Linux, the load time that i have is around 4 mins 30 on Windows where Linux is under 4 mins , but now i don't use XP ( think i quit using it now)  on Linux as i had to keep everything in one as mentioned above.

More and more windows development stuff is also being available for Linux e.g. VScode , not a programmer so i don't know how it differs from the Windows development but at least to what i have seen at my clients it does things that they are doing under windows platform. think even ASP is now usable under Linux.

 The thing is Linux being an opensource a continuous update makes things a little bit difficult to maintain as certain things change , not that i have faced much issues as i am comfortable with Linux  and it has no commercial value one of the reasons not many paid games are probably available. I have Dirt Rally works amazingly on Linux too. So does ATS.

 More also its the user friendly environment that users look at. A layman with a little computer knowledge probably won't install Linux for browsing / email or watching youtube etc.. Most laptops now come with preinstalled Windows. so he / she wants to game and buys either a gaming laptop or a desktop for it , I am sure they will get windows , even without a license one can use it without issues.

 LR probably is also outsourcing development either short term or long term.

You are the enemy go back to P3d pun intended.

Edited June 30, 2020 by HumptyDumpty

[Kopteeni 819]

Interesting discussion about XPlane's future turned into a useless OS vs. OS battle where each participant is just throwing their crappy subjective experiences to prove their OS is the king. Whoopeedoo.

[Humpty 751]

Just now, Kopteeni said:

Interesting discussion about XPlane's future turned into a useless OS vs. OS battle where each participant is just throwing their crappy subjective experiences to prove their OS is the king. Whoopeedoo.

Yes I agree , like all discussions some things do interfere. 

[mSparks 2,086]

13 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

Interesting discussion about XPlane's future turned into a useless OS vs. OS battle where each participant is just throwing their crappy subjective experiences to prove their OS is the king. Whoopeedoo.

I was hesitant to bring in a lot of it.

But heres why I decided it was OK.

When Austin speaks, he isnt really talking from the perspective of the developer of a flight simulator - those days are long gone.

Instead he speaks from the head of a pretty successful company.

therefore "what OS" is just as on topic as xplanes future, as would be why patents are a scam or which country has the best developers for hire.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Kopteeni 819]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I was hesitant to bring in a lot of it.

But heres why I decided it was OK.

When Austin speaks, he isnt really talking from the perspective of the developer of a flight simulator - those days are long gone.

Instead he speaks from the head of a pretty successful company.

therefore "what OS" is just as on topic as xplanes future, as would be why patents are a scam or which country has the best developers for hire.

You should post your comparison reports to Laminar. I'm sure they'll bang their heads against the wall and immediately drop support for 60% of their user base after seeing your air-tight numbers.

[mSparks 2,086]

14 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

You should post your comparison reports to Laminar. I'm sure they'll bang their heads against the wall and immediately drop support for 60% of their user base after seeing your air-tight numbers.

since windows users are in the small minority at Laminar, Im sure that discussion has already happened more than once.

[Kopteeni 819]

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

since windows users are in the small minority at Laminar, Im sure that discussion has already happened more than once.

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, Kopteeni said:

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

Personally I expect Laminar to be the main beneficiaries of the Microsoft flight 2.0.2.0 marketing budget. Especially once it drops.

[Kopteeni 819]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Personally I expect Laminar to be the main beneficiaries of the Microsoft flight 2.0.2.0 marketing budget. Especially once it drops.

I admire your bravery. Are you just going to delete your post history if your forecasts will end up aging like milk?

[mSparks 2,086]

8 minutes ago, Kopteeni said:

I admire your bravery. Are you just going to delete your post history if your forecasts will end up aging like milk?

I have 25 years of post history, not going to delete it even if Asobo do actually achieve the impossible after all that time. What would be the point of that?

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[tonywob 4,768]

20 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

2.  Let go of IOS/OSX/Linux ... even more relevant now that Apple are going to drop Intel and go back to their own processors  ... multi platform is a good idea for larger development teams, not for LR dev team size

I find this view pretty strange, especially if you're a programmer?. Developing on these platforms is much more open than using a closed DirectX environment that will only run on Windows/X-Box PCs. Although Mac OS uses Metal instead of Vulkan, they're not miles apart to be incompatible. If they stuck to developing Windows only, they'd be cutting of a part of their fanbase that virtually has no competition (i.e. Linux/Mac OS flight simulation). In addition, the iOS port is likely earning them money at the moment, and has a bigger reach than Windows PCs.  Although I certainly don't like their decision to move to ARM processors, if it unifies iOS with the desktop, then this will be a good thing for developers.

 

16 hours ago, mSparks said:

I don't actually understand why so many buy a top notch PC just for xplane - and then install windows on it. Its like buying a Ferrari and then fitting a VW golf engine in it and replacing the leather seats with latex.

I'm a Mac user, most of the time... but I also have a Windows gaming laptop simply because many games don't have Mac/Linux versions and VR only works on Windows. One big strength for me is X-Plane's support for Mac OS X as well as all the development tools etc... I dislike Windows 10 so much that I rarely touch the machine and I'd rip it out and replace it with Linux in a heartbeat if all my software was compatible. Windows 10 is such a horrible OS which gets in my way from actually doing work or using my computer (Awful start panel, popups, etc...). Up until this point, Apple did it correctly, but it seems to be a growing trend over the past few years to greatly dumb down computers.

[Fizzelle 66]

41 minutes ago, tonywob said:

greatly dumb down computers

..not to mention the new UI etc in MSFS!

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, tonywob said:

I dislike Windows 10 so much that I rarely touch the machine and I'd rip it out and replace it with Linux in a heartbeat if all my software was compatible.

I think it passed many by just how much market and mind share microsoft lost.

go into a cafe, all the hipsters are on Apple.

go into a large multinational, all the stalwart ibm thinkpads have been replaced with Apple.

go into a home, all the PC games machines have been replaced with Playstations or Nintendo switch.

When Steve Jobs died I was predicting the beginning of the end for Apple, what I didnt count on was how hard Microsoft would work on making sure Apple continued to grow. 

I started the switch to Linux as far back as 98 with the release of Mandriva Linux, and since then never adopted any software that didnt have a Linux option.

Flight simulator X steam edition was the sole exception to that, Steam tells me I amassed a meager 300 or so hours on it, and it was last used in Oct 2017.

Libreoffice is now serious competition to ms office, g suite has made a huge impact.

The days of "microsoft or bust" have long gone.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks