Austin Interview on Threshold

[Bjoern 1,157]

20 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I think some of you need to put your platform "love" aside for the greater good of getting XP to advance faster.

Screw "greater good". All these FS20 advents secretly just don't want to give money and data to MS for fears of being screwed over at some point (ref. FSX, Flight) and losing risky investments, usually in the thousands, they made in third party add-ons. Otherwise, there'd be no outside pressure on Laminar to produce a 1:1 clone because that's what 90% of these "what Laminar should do" posts entail.

 

13 hours ago, Airboeing said:

I'm on my third PC build since switching to X-Plane, and on each one I got significantly better performance using Windows compared to Linux with the official Nvidia drivers. I really would like to use Linux exclusively, but I always keep a Windows drive for X-Plane and some other software.

My Windows 10 installations got relegated to backup status after I found out that even gaming is easily possible on Linux nowadays.

Really the only reason to stick to Windows in an X-Plane context is some third party add-ons.

 

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

About the drivers for Linux the Mesa has come a long way with proper 3d Acceleration but LR will not help you if you face an issue with the open source drivers which i had.  Users having a NVIDIA will have better proprietary drivers for Linux but for ones with an AMD GPU would have issues like installation and then getting a black screen , so AMD users shift to the open source ones and it gives great performance.

LR does not support open source drivers because bei their (well, Sid's) own admission, they can't test them yet.

True about the performance though, I get nearly equal framerates on my desktop's AMD in Mesa with OpenGL than I do on Windows with Vulkan.

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

Same thing about using it as a desktop , starting blender / rendering is way snappier than in Windows. Gimp is faster in Linux.  But I wanted only one OS for all the sims like DCS / il2 so i had to go back to windows.

IL-2 1946 runs perfectly fine on Linu-...oh, you're talking about the other one.

 

10 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

 More also its the user friendly environment that users look at. A layman with a little computer knowledge probably won't install Linux for browsing / email or watching youtube etc.. Most laptops now come with preinstalled Windows. so he / she wants to game and buys either a gaming laptop or a desktop for it , I am sure they will get windows , even without a license one can use it without issues.

Ubuntu and its derivatives have become incredibly user friendly. For word processing and web browsing, it's totally adequate now.

 

9 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

Interesting discussion about XPlane's future turned into a useless OS vs. OS battle where each participant is just throwing their crappy subjective experiences to prove their OS is the king. Whoopeedoo.

Might as well close the thread then because no user-side speculation about XPlane's future is interesting because it's just the same wants and speculation over and over again.

 

9 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

Maybe you get your wish after MSFS drops and all the Windows users will migrate to greener pastures.

What a great day this'll be. I'mma pop open a bottle of sparkling wine and get terribly drunk.

[mSparks 2,086]

18 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I see with XP very slow development.  

2017 was xplane 10.

I have absolutely NO idea how you can quantify 3 years from then to now as "slow". 

Breathtakingly fast is more the words I would use.

Which flight sim (and there are lots of them) are you comparing with that has moved and improved faster? Its taken flight 2.0.2.0 twelve months to fix their broken rudder and elevators.

If anything 3rd parties have been complaining its been to fast and they haven't been able to keep up.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

9 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

LR does not support open source drivers because bei their (well, Sid's) own admission, they can't test them yet.

True about the performance though, I get nearly equal framerates on my desktop's AMD in Mesa with OpenGL than I do on Windows with Vulkan.

 

IL-2 1946 runs perfectly fine on Linu-...oh, you're talking about the other one.

 

Ubuntu and its derivatives have become incredibly user friendly. For word processing and web browsing, it's totally adequate now.

 

 

That's what i said LR will not help you if you have problems with Open source drivers. 

Yeah the other il2 🙂 

They have become friendlier but it's still needs some time. But its getting there.

 

[Humpty 751]

20 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

But that's the problem, it's not a developers decision ... it's a market decision (per data 80% on Windows) and we programmers follow the metrics of higher revenue.  It's NOT about "me" as a developer, it's about growth and shorter delivery cycles.  I'm not against open or closed systems, they both have their benefits and pitfalls ... my preference isn't relevant ... and that's the problem I see with XP very slow development.  

I've had this same debate before with XP10 early days ... and yet nothing has changed and their is still the problem of slow development and unresponsive to end user desires.

Just like MSFS SDK isn't about what I want (nobody wants WASM or DX11), it's about what MS/Asobo want and where they feel the market share for increased sales "might" be.

Cheers, Rob.

Your SDK will not contain what every individual user wants , imagine 1 billion want some thing else in the SDK. I feel  as a developer you should understand that. 

You are the only one talking about this shorter development cycle as if LR don't understand , they have their own work cut out  .  Yeah some things are not done or not being that is a big put off.   They are seeing more revenue in the mobile app and in all fairness they have a right to earn. 

 

[mSparks 2,086]

10 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

That's what i said LR will not help you if you have problems with Open source drivers. 

Sidney Just (Laminar) has been a major contributor to VKMA

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/VulkanMemoryAllocator

So that's just not true.

And, btw windows [7] has already been dumped.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Sidney Just (Laminar) has been a major contributor to VKMA

https://github.com/GPUOpen-LibrariesAndSDKs/VulkanMemoryAllocator

So that's just not true.

And, btw windows [7] has already been dumped.

 

It was confirmed by Jennifer when i had submitted a bug long back  saying  they don't support the open source drivers 🙂.  It was Opengl back then not vulkan , probably only a few months ago

Maybe they changed that now

What about this windows 7 ? i don't use it 

Edited June 30, 2020 by HumptyDumpty

[Kopteeni 819]

28 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

What a great day this'll be. I'mma pop open a bottle of sparkling wine and get terribly drunk.

That's a terrible thing to say. Luckily most of the XPlane community are happy that the product is developed for multiple platforms so as many people as possible can enjoy it.

[mSparks 2,086]

1 minute ago, HumptyDumpty said:

when i had submitted a bug long back  saying  they don't support the open source drivers 🙂

Obviously they dont support bugs in other peoples software.

Austin went on quite the rant about people expecting support from Laminar for zibos software in the OP to.

[Humpty 751]

Just now, mSparks said:

Obviously they dont support bugs in other peoples software.

Austin went on quite the rant about people expecting support from Laminar for zibos software in the OP to.

I am not sure i am understanding your point ?

I was talking about Open source Mesa drivers which Jenniffer said they do not support it so ?

[Humpty 751]

4 hours ago, tonywob said:

I'm a Mac user, most of the time... but I also have a Windows gaming laptop simply because many games don't have Mac/Linux versions and VR only works on Windows. One big strength for me is X-Plane's support for Mac OS X as well as all the development tools etc... I dislike Windows 10 so much that I rarely touch the machine and I'd rip it out and replace it with Linux in a heartbeat if all my software was compatible. Windows 10 is such a horrible OS which gets in my way from actually doing work or using my computer (Awful start panel, popups, etc...). Up until this point, Apple did it correctly, but it seems to be a growing trend over the past few years to greatly dumb down computers.

You have most games that would run on linux if i am correct , format that drive NOW install Linux.

[mSparks 2,086]

21 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

Open source Mesa drivers which Jenniffer said they do not support it so ?

If there is a bug in the open source mesa drivers, there is nothing Laminar can do in any way shape or form to fix it. So file the bug with Mesa. If Mesa find it is actually a bug with xplane, they should file it with Laminar with a detailed break down of which spec is being violated.

21 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

XP11 first public beta was 2016 (Nov 25)

exactly, in 2016 and well into 2017 XP11 was still in Beta, ergo, 2017 was still XP10 as suitable for production.

They have been much more secretive about the parallel work going into XP12. Only hinting at "undecided" and "eastern europeans working on it" so far.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

18 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm sorry but your comment doesn't really make any sense?  There aren't 1 Billion developers using MSFS SDK ... MS claim about 200, in my unofficial count I'd say about 100 developers.  I also don't think you understand what WASM means to a developer and how much of a limitation that is.

But again, it's NOT about what I want as a developer, it's about where the users are and what they want which is how a platform grows into something much better.

Cheers, Rob.

Yep i know there ain't a billion developers i was just giving an example. 

Ofc i don't understand what WASM means as i am not a developer. Though in IT but my field of expertise is different.

really not talking of debating about a programming platform just a development thing that could even be Python etc.. for e.g. so it could be anything

Here i do agree that these companies should consider the users point which imo is missing in LR's dictionary. Thats the reason i have been saying they need to do something about the weather system  just like you have mentioned previously.   For me this is the most crucial part of the flight sim after the flight characterisctics.  Even a half decent weather system from LR would go a long way.  

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by HumptyDumpty

[Humpty 751]

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

If there is a bug in the open source mesa drivers, there is nothing Laminar can do in any way shape or form to fix it. So file the bug with Mesa. If Mesa find it is actually a bug with xplane, they should file it with Laminar with a detailed break down of which spec is being violated.

 

LOl i am still not understanding your point. This was a bug report for X-plane for which they did tell me. That's what i have said above if one uses Mesa any issues relating to XP with the drivers LR can't do much. 

[mSparks 2,086]

12 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

LOl i am still not understanding your point. This was a bug report for X-plane for which they did tell me. That's what i have said above if one uses Mesa any issues relating to XP with the drivers LR can't do much. 

 For the same reason they wont accept a bug report when the log says "plugin XYZ caused xplane to crash" or one along the lines of "Xplane crashes to desktop with Zibomod when I select ABC final approach"

Repeat it with a default plane and drivers that are otherwise known and expected to work and they will accept it, repeat it and fix it.

15 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

should consider the users point which imo is missing in LR's dictionary.

Are you talking as a user that paid $60 for the entertainment use version, or a user that paid $750 for the commercial use version?

If the former, perhaps just accept gamers get what they are given...... You are talking about a piece of software whose primary use is ATOs charging $50-$1000 an hour to use. Getting access to that for a $60 one off cost is an absolute gift. MS are charging $100 a year for their 10 year old steaming POS that is office.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

 For the same reason they wont accept a bug report when the log says "plugin XYZ caused xplane to crash" or one along the lines of "Xplane crashes to desktop with Zibomod when I select ABC final approach"

Repeat it with a default plane and drivers that are otherwise known and expected to work and they will accept it, repeat it and fix it.

Are you talking as a user that paid $60 for the entertainment use version, or a user that paid $750 for the commercial use version?

If the former, perhaps just accept gamers get what they are given...... You are talking about a piece of software whose primary use is ATOs charging $50-$1000 an hour to use.

u r still not understand the Mesa so i will let it go.

Lol you are really bent on defending LR.  Which software m i talking about ?