Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Colonel X

Austin Interview on Threshold

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

That's what i said LR will not help you if you have problems with Open source drivers.

Yes, and I've said that this is subject to change once (/if) Laminar gets an internal means up to test XP with alternative drivers for AMD. The reason why they do not support open source drivers is that apparently nobody in the team uses them (yet). So no way to replicate --> no way to support.

I'd have no problem with doing some debugging for Laminar on my AMD machine and a shorter line of communication to Sid and Ben.

 

2 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

That's a terrible thing to say. Luckily most of the XPlane community are happy that the product is developed for multiple platforms so as many people as possible can enjoy it.

No, it's not. Of course anybody may use and enjoy X-Plane, but constantly yapping about how the other pasture is going to be the best pasture ever and the current one will be unattractive unless the grass grows faster and greener is highly annoying.

 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

If there is a bug in the open source mesa drivers, there is nothing Laminar can do in any way shape or form to fix it. So file the bug with Mesa. If Mesa find it is actually a bug with xplane, they should file it with Laminar with a detailed break down of which spec is being violated.

This works both ways. As Mesa is open source, Laminar, if curious enough, may also trace a bug back to the driver source code and post a bug report on Mesa's Github.

 

51 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

i am curious to know what is the performance difference between XP Windows Vulkan against XP Linux  Vulkan (mostly with the AMD GPU but even a Nvidia comparision would suffice)

Rough figures for the most complex benchmark at 1440p on a 5700XT:

OpenGL: 30 FPS Windows, 50 FPS (Mesa) Linux

Vulkan: 50 FPS Windows, 53 FPS (AMDVLK, AMDGPU Pro) / 60 FPS (Mesa) Linux

Complete results with context:
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/213778-benchmarking-xp11-on-linux-and-the-results/&do=findComment&comment=1928491

 

13 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Nope, your stats are wrong.

No, they're not as the figure applies to Steam users:

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Steam-Linux-May-2020

Kind of proud to be part of the 1%.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Xplane mobile is ~ identical code to xplane desktop (actually more features since they rolled out MMO there first).

windows is 60% of the ~300,000 xplane desktop installs

1,000,000+ google variant linux installs

and 180,000 windows installs

is not 0.9% Linux 60% windows.

Your stats are wrong.

You need to read better.
MY stats are videogames related, not just Xp related. I never claimed they were.
Now that hopefully you understood that, go read it back.
Xplane mobile might have an identical code, but the hardware limitations are there and that is why graphic wise the mobile version is a dumbed down version of XP for desktops.
That being said, i still don't see why we are even talking about mobile apps at this point and you didn't seem to give an answer to that either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Pastaiolo said:

You need to read better.
MY stats are videogames related, not just Xp related. I never claimed they were.
Now that hopefully you understood that, go read it back.
Xplane mobile might have an identical code, but the hardware limitations are there and that is why graphic wise the mobile version is a dumbed down version of XP for desktops.
That being said, i still don't see why we are even talking about mobile apps at this point and you didn't seem to give an answer to that either

again, 2.5 billion users on android, and

people play video games on their devices not sure what "other" stats you are looking for. PS4 is FreeBSD (another posix OS), XBOX is nowhere.

Year 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024
TOTAL 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%

100.0%

Android 85.1% 86.1% 85.4% 86.0% 86.2% 86.3% 86.4%
iOS 14.9% 13.9% 14.6% 14.0% 13.8% 13.7% 13.6%
Others 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
Edited by mSparks

AutoATC Developer, Provocateur 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

again, 2.5 billion users on android, and

people play video games on their devices not sure what "other" stats you are looking for. PS4 is FreeBSD (another posix OS), XBOX is nowhere.

Year 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024
TOTAL 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%

100.0%

Android 85.1% 86.1% 85.4% 86.0% 86.2% 86.3% 86.4%
iOS 14.9% 13.9% 14.6% 14.0% 13.8% 13.7% 13.6%
Others 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%

Listen, if you can't answer a question, don't post. It's three times now i am asking the same question.

Why are we talking about mobile videogames? What does it have to do with our desktop users? My statistics are related to what the biggest gaming related survey shows, and it shows that most desktop PCs are running on Windows by far. Mobile devices don't have the same power as desktop pcs and shoudn't have anything to do with what we are talking about in this topic

What is YOUR point in relation to XP?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Pastaiolo said:

What is YOUR point in relation to XP?

I'd hazard a guess that @mSparks simply wants to point out that keeping X-Plane's ecosystem multiplatform offers better revenue streams than focusing exclusively on Windows, which, in terms of OS architecture, is the odd one out in a sea of UNIX-based, POSIX compliant operating systems.

Edited by Bjoern
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Pastaiolo said:

Why are we talking about mobile videogames? What does it have to do with our desktop users?

Because Austin cares about the bottom line for his company, not what the vocal minority of users who can't put a usb stick in the slot of their desktop think he should do with his company.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

AutoATC Developer, Provocateur 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

No, it's not. Of course anybody may use and enjoy X-Plane, but constantly yapping about how the other pasture is going to be the best pasture ever and the current one will be unattractive unless the grass grows faster and greener is highly annoying.

If there's no truth to that then you can just ignore it? Internet is not the greatest place if you get worked up about what people write there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kopteeni said:

If there's no truth to that then you can just ignore it? Internet is not the greatest place if you get worked up about what people write there.

Get stressed by something, release stress by expressing discontent (in some way), done. Also works outside of the internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Austins views on photoscenery. I have never been a fan of it either and avoided going near it in FSX and X-Plane 11. I cant dispute that it looks nice from high altitude. However from down low and slow I cannot shake the sensation of a photo-blanket draped across the land  - and also the rez suffers the closer you get to it ruining the immersion. 

Far from the doom and gloom I've seen mentioned elsewhere (about XP11 vanishing once FS20 appears) I feel it will co-exist just fine alongside the new sim on many users computers. XP11 is a fabulous sim, I love the enthusiasm of Austin and his hardworking team and will always support them.

 

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 6

i7 920 @ 3.00Ghz // GTX 1060 6GB // 12GB DDR3 // Win10 Pro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2020 at 3:04 PM, mSparks said:

^OpenGL, but I doubt Vulkan makes the windows situation much better, probably narrowed the gap. 

Please check your facts:

 

  • Like 1

Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
This message from Reality XP is protected by a disclaimer: reality-xp.com/aboutrealityxp/email.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, RXP said:

Please check your facts:

 

you know we were comparing linux vs windows right?

not windows opengl vs windows vulkan

Edited by mSparks

AutoATC Developer, Provocateur 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mSparks

On 6/30/2020 at 3:04 PM, mSparks said:

^OpenGL but I doubt Vulkan makes the windows situation much better, probably narrowed the gap. 

These are 2 videos where X-Plane lead developer is explaining, benchmarks in hand what to expect from OpenGL to Vulkan in terms of fps increase, and how there is a significant difference for them between AMD and NVidia, which OpenGL driver is already better than AMD's (at the time of the video).

These benchmarks are indicating AMD's OpenGL and NVidia Windows OpenGL implementations are producing varying and inferior performance than Vulkan, and this could explain why the OpenBenchmarking.org sheet you've included in your message is showing so much difference between Windows and Ubuntu: not because Windows is inherently inferior to Unix (which depends on what you measure inferiority on), but mostly because the OpenGL drivers the benchmark is based on are not pushing the video card and the operating system to their maximum, which maximum can still be below any Unix you'd prefer, but nonetheless, IMHO, the benchmark you're using to claim Unix superiority is not illustrative of any OS superiority, just different Video Card driver implementations.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
This message from Reality XP is protected by a disclaimer: reality-xp.com/aboutrealityxp/email.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, RXP said:

just different Video Card driver implementations

this  ^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RXP said:

but mostly because the OpenGL drivers the benchmark is based on are not pushing the video card and the operating system to their maximum

The reason for the difference is, like for like, its pushing the cpu to the maximum on windows and not doing so on linux.

Because windows has a terrible task scheduler that wastes up to 50% of cpu time mostly on needlessly context switching and the rest on a very poor scheduler causing lots of cache misses.

which can generally be hacked around with process lasso. (or spending several thousand dollars on windows server for a scheduler that is still only almost as good as linux)

vulkan removes a lot of the cpu overhead of opengl. it doesnt change the fact windows is still wasting 30-50% of the cpu horsepower needed for the remaining CPU tasks. 

windows and linux benefit from vulkan more or less equally

there are actual numbers of what that looks like already in the thread.

This is nothing contentious tbh, if you want cpu performance out of windows approaching that of linux, buy windows server 2020, windows home and professional are not intended for heavy realtime compute and simulation, only casual gaming and microsoft office.

Edited by mSparks

AutoATC Developer, Provocateur 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    28%
    $7,170.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...