Air Marshal uses deadly force

[Guest]

>And look no further than Israel, which has probably the>strictest in air and airport security of any country in the>world. I can't recall when I've heard of either a terrorist>attack, or use of force against a civilian, on one of El Al's>flights.>That's because it never happened. There have been attempts in the past but none ever came close to the aircraft.And IF they'd gotten on IDFAF marshalls on board would make short work of them, and no second guessing if it might have been some mentally unstable person who'd forgotten his medication and wasn't knowing what he was saying.>I think many are left of the opinion the U.S. is an armed camp>after 9/11. Hardly. Security (if it's there) doesn't impede>on our lives, and neither do the police. I can go a week orWhen in the US last year I was comforted seeing more police around than I do at home in Europe, but they were indeed non-obvious (except to people not used to seeing any police ever except traffic cops) and certainly non-threatening.I'd rather have some more police patrol the streets at night here, there are times I don't feel comfortable walking my own neighbourhood in the dark...>Even airport security lines rarely move slower than pre 9/11>days. Pre 9/11 I worked in a job that had me flying once or>more a week. Post 9/11 I've flown less, but when I fly, I>usually clear security even with wife and daughter in tow in a>matter of minutes and sometimes seconds.>Noticed that last year. Very professional, well organised, and finally at a level with the rest of the civilised world.You now have a system in place similar to what pretty much prevented terrorist attacks in Europe for something like 15 years now, after we learned the hard way during the 1970s and early 1980s.>It's good people keep concerned over security--when it becomes>an excuse to enforce restrictions on our lives that are>political (such as a recent rally where only supporters of a>certain politician were allowed in), then people need to holdThat's the good right of that politician and his sponsors, no government agency will force them to allow people you don't want during your private gatherings.Would you want the police to force you to let everyone who wants to in when you hold a private party somewhere? This is the same thing.IF the event was organised using federal grants for campaigning there might be rules in place making it a public gathering (and thus open to anyone) but they're probably very careful about that.

[Guest beana51]

After some 61 posts now,its amazing the diversity of opinion.Lke in the Hellenistic form of democracy.Those guys would debate anything,anytime and all day. They loved the language and the sound of it. So they would go on,and on,listening to themselves talk.In their frustration, often,would turn on each other. Not unlike our senate,or some of us on this forum. The less vocal Spartans spoke in a laconic tongue.No embellishments,no debate,one mind,no Democracy, slave supported, one cause,united, and they go on to accomplish their goals. This may have been the price of Democracy for the Athenians. The Spartans were successful,for a time,but in the end the concept of democracy lives on. It seems nothing has changed.Our towers of Babel are functioning well.Our enemies have no alternative plan.They don't need one. They are in harmony with all their people,one goal,one mind and no debate ,and their god.The god they interpret as being on their side.It may not be true ,but they believe it.They want to kill us. Of course Democracy will prevail.Freedom is a humans birth right.A gift.Often its not easy to keep it.The struggle for it makes it so precious.And struggle we must, to keep it. I often said its hard to imagine our society,culture,civilization not being here any longer.So did many other like civilizations were taken away.All thought they were invincible,all fell. Often, not for the better, and with disasterous consequences. I suggest we protect our country,our families,our culture and our civilization.Each in their own way,and in every way.We have done so in every generation and it has never failed us.If we do not, or shrik our duty,then the "EVIL' ones will roll over us. Many of our friends in the world, do this every day.No choice.They can win every battle,win every argument, be diligent,attempt to make peace,and yet,one loss or hesitation on their part spells national disaster.Their neighbors want to destroy them, or relocate them,or push them into the sea.They,the "EVIL" ones have vowed to kill them all. They have had that experience before, not to long ago,by other "EVIL" people and they won't forget."Never Again" they vow! In a recent conflict ,scud missals attacked them with impunity.Even with all the super defenses.It shows their may be no real defense against a determined foe. Soon they can be nuclear tipped,these scuds, if used, it will start WW3. It could be the final war.So what are they to do?What are we to do? I wish all this were not so.The thoughts are painful.That Utopian world of peace,milk and honey,brotherly love, just keeps eluding us.Every generation pays the terrible price for freedom,,as many have ,and are today. All wish to leave their children a world in peace. Who knows,? one of these CHRISTMAS,some day, will bring peace on earth. VIN

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

This is one #### of a tangent!Or as Winston Churchill said "Democracy sucks, but it is preferable to the alternative".The thing you need to keep in mind is that democracy works, so long as people are reasonably affluent. You can't have a single party state in a country where people get to choose their cell phone network, likewise you can't have democracy if people are struggling to merely get through the day.Also, let's be very clear on this. European and US democracy (i.e. affluence) was built on the back of conquering land, slavery and oil. Neither the US nor Europe would be where it is today if it didn't manipluate a veritible multitude of smaller nations to gain political and economic power. Would Britain be the country it is today without the old colonial empire? Would the US be the country it is without oil and HUGE wealth that slavery generated or indeed that fact that many of the initial imigrants arrived with an understanding of European political infrastructure?We are in a good position and I wouldn't dream of squandering it becasue of our less than illustrious past. Then again, somebody had to rise to the top in what is a vicious world. But being starry eyed about how wonderful democracy is does demonstrate a degree of ignorance of how much other countries are suppressed so that we can stay at the top of the heap.I suspect no amount of asbestos will protect me now!

[Guest beana51]

Hi, Oh no,on the contrary,save you asbestoes,you may need it elsewhere!you just reinforce what I'm thinking.Diversity of opinion, your practicing democracy.Many share your views.We all know whats going on in our country right now. Are we all correct?,while being all wrong? Is the glass half empty,?or is it half full?. The concept of self fallagtion,the guilt people feel for the actions of history past some have,are human traits . Many feel so guilty the go off in some monastery ,and practice eternal penance."The Devil made me do it" the implore!To bad its not shared by the "EVIL" ones.They kinnda thrive of human misery,poverty,diease,slavery,murder,torture,all not as of a consequence of fate,but of their design.No remorse,or soul searching by them.They know what they want,and will do anything to do it.No Fear! Cut a head? no problem! Kill a hundred,ya get two Virgins. As far as Europe ,I think after WW2, they may have come full circle.Same with our friends in Japan. The topic of slavery,still practiced to-day,is a sensitive one. Our country ,almost was destroyed in that argument.A civil war.With the question of slavery at the core of it. We made our statement,in a democracy,years ago.I know of no other society who would have fought so hard ,for,or against this ,and yet ,Democracy prevailed. It passed the test.We are a country. An other country will have an opportunity to practice this.They will vote soon.A country steeped in vice,intrigue, and all the ills of the human misery you can think of,and from the beginning of time.A very old great people always being denied freedom.They are apprehensive,cautious, fearful,maby in some denial,and have never experienced freedom before.They lost that starry eyed appeal of Democracy.They still look over their shoulder for the "Thieves" Of Bagdad"I hope they get that look back! They will try however.It even may work.The freedom "Gennie" is out of the bottle now. Given a chance it will grant the wishes people yearn for.Freedom,democracy,a chance to be a human being! You indicate being starry eyed about democracy is ignorant,Then many of us may be.I hope I never get as smart as those who do not get starry eyed about their Democratic country. Nice chatting with you,we both are practicing Democracy!Now ain't that grand.Try this in China,Iran,Syria,North Korea,many of the small African states,and to many other Asian countryies Funny they get starry eyed when they risk their lives,escaping tyranny, trying to get here,or any other Democratic country. I know this started with an aviation topic,but those things happen because of what were facing. It ain't Starry eyed Democratic people trying to kill us.In some cases using Planes. Regards to ya! So Sorry for the "EVIL" bashing,somebody gotta do it!Democracy gets its share also,DO IT? Gotta go to the pool now! Here in the Bone yard! MMMMMMMM! a double summer salt half ganer? gotta get the Ole ladys attention!!Then help repair a RV-4 beat up by that dam hurricane. OH Well!! VIN:-sun1

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

I'm neither a glass half full/empty person. If I like the taste I drink it, if it is poison or bitter I don't. Iraq is in a total mess and no amount of electioneering will pull it out of the mire within the next 50 years. The current generation won't change, the children's formative years are against very difficult backdrop, so it is down to the children's children to forge a real democracy. However, one thing we do agree on is that the process must start now.But the real problem will be when the oil starts to run out. Forward thinking western nations are already planning and building oil free infastructures. All Iraq can do is produce oil. Without affluence there will never be a democracy.

[Guest Shalomar]

Ever notice "afluenza" in the disease list? Worse than "influenza". Well, if we are in Iraq in 50 years we will, at our current rate of attrition, equal the body count we piled up in only ten in Vietnam. They don't let mental patients enlist, but those that do, VOLUNTEER!!!FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

[Guest beana51]

Nice Talking to you. I hope you have a great and safe "HOLLIDAY". "MERRY CHRISTMAS" VIN :-sun1

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

I don't think we will be there for 50 years. What I mean is that democracy isn't just something where elections happen. It is a thing wher e peopel think differently and have different expectations. The Iraqi system is flawed in that there are no constitutions, no states, no congress, no parliment...basically, they will not have seats nor a seperate judiciary, a legislature and executive. These things are needed in real governments. The UK Parliment cannot function without Whitehall. Without our Judges the government and Whitehall could make up any rules it wanted and political adversaries at will. Just look at Russia. Call that a democracy! Pffff. Just think how long it will be before Iraq is an educated and worldly nation. Its a long road!HAPPY XMAS Beana1 :D

[Guest Shalomar]

They do have a ways to go. How long did we Stand with Germany? Honestly; we need to mend a BUNCH of 'checks and balance' fences ourselves!Edit: I would rather live in Iraq now than Kuwait!!!Best Regards, Donny:-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.